[00:00:00] Dave Polykoff: Welcome to another episode of personal brand blueprint. I'm Dave Poliakoff from Zen post. com your personal brand blueprint, giving you the tools, templates, and tactics to help you attract, convince, and convert your ideal client online. Again, go to Zen post. com to check out how we can work together to grow and monetize your personal brand.
[00:00:20] On today's episode, we have John D'Amato brand event and book photographer of D'Amato productions. Today we're chatting with John about how we can use. Visual storytelling to grow and monetize our personal brands. So John, welcome to the show.
[00:00:34] John DeMato: Appreciate the invitation, my friend. Thank you.
[00:00:37] Dave Polykoff: Absolutely. And you got the note about the black t shirts and that's
[00:00:41] John DeMato: I mean, if I don't show up in a black t shirt, there's a problem. Let's just put it that way.
[00:00:47] Dave Polykoff: show, yeah, it's easy enough right off the rack. Uh, so cool. We're going to get into everything, visual storytelling. I want to kind of understand more about what that is and how you apply that with your clients. But first. Think for the audience's [00:01:00] sake, let's kind of just understand a little bit more about who you are and what you do.
[00:01:03] So let's answer the question first, John, what do you do
[00:01:08] John DeMato: What do I do? That's a great question, Dave. Um, As you mentioned, I am a branding event and book photographer, and I serve experts who speak, coach, train, consult, and write books in a way that helps, uh, combine and align their words with their visuals to create an impression and a perception of authority in the minds of those that they serve.
[00:01:39] Dave Polykoff: like that? Note there about combining the words that they say with their visuals. Cause I think let's talk about that later with, with personal branding. Sometimes those things do not align. Um, so who, you kind of mentioned it there, uh, in your note about what you do, but who would then be kind of like an ideal client that would be perfect for your style of photography?[00:02:00]
[00:02:01] John DeMato: If someone, well, as far as I'm concerned, anyone that is in the business of building relationships and they are looking to build long term connections with those that they serve, those are my people.
[00:02:16] Dave Polykoff: And so. You use the expression kind of like visual storytelling and attaching the words people use with that visual element to it. Can you kind of define what visual storytelling is so that people can kind of get an idea of like what we're talking about here,
[00:02:36] John DeMato: Yeah, I can give you the one sentence definition. Visual storytelling is the process of proving. That, uh, what you say is true based on the way that you show up in your photos.
[00:02:52] Dave Polykoff: easy enough. Um, and so this is an important topic. Because I think a lot of [00:03:00] people kind of get scared of the camera and they don't like to maybe take photos for themselves. Um, and so, but you've kind of made your entire life around photography and taking photos. So let's talk about how did you get involved in actually becoming a photographer and specifically this niche that you're in.
[00:03:17] John DeMato: Well, when I worked in TV once upon a time, many years ago at this point, it's been 10 years. Um, I was a field producer for a talk show in New York and in Stanford, Connecticut. And after a couple of years, I started to get a little bit, um, What's the word I'm looking for? Uh, resentful and tired and ultimately burned out.
[00:03:42] And then, uh, in about in 2013, when my mom got sick and then eventually passed away, I kind of had my come to Jesus moment that you hear about when I was at her bedside. And I, I realized, you know, if I were in her position, I would be so completely [00:04:00] Resentful of how I lived my life and at that time I was working during the week on the show and then on the weekends.
[00:04:10] I picked up photography as a hobby at 1st and then, uh, after a couple of years, I started to photograph, uh, aside from the street photography I was doing here in New York City. I started photographing actual people, and that led to me becoming a headshot photographer on the side, and when I quit, I just naturally assumed, well, it's New York City.
[00:04:36] There's 9 million people here. I can just be a headshot photographer. Of course, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. No plan whatsoever. Other than, oh, well, if I just, you know, Post a couple of really cool looking photos of these headshots. I mean, surely that's going to bring in the business. And then you fast forward a couple of years and you realize that, uh, none of that works and you're [00:05:00] spending your nights at three o'clock in the morning, staring at the ceiling, wondering what the hell you just did with your life and your career, and you start questioning things.
[00:05:08] But in the midst of all of that, I started going on LinkedIn, started looking up people to help me market the headshot work. And as I did that, I ran across these people who were on stages and they spoke. And I'm like, I didn't even realize that was a gig. I thought that was for Tony Robbins and presidents and that was it.
[00:05:32] So that kind of really piqued my attention because all of them were talking about all of these interesting things and they're all dynamic and you know, producer. So I'm watching these people really perform this expertise. So I really got drawn in. And then the first client that I had was the woman who actually convinced me that I should kind of photograph these types of people [00:06:00] because during, uh, the shoot that I had with her, she kind of, she's a personal branding.
[00:06:06] Person. So she's like, well, this is what you can do. And you could, I'm like, I don't know what the hell you're talking about, but it all sounds good. And yes, I'll photograph you. And yes, yes, you can help me with my website and let's see what happens. And that was 10 years ago. And, uh, here we are today.
[00:06:22] Dave Polykoff: That's great. So you kind of, you said you had kind of like a production producer kind of background and then that bled into the actual like filming of or photography side of things.
[00:06:35] John DeMato: Yeah, we went from 24 frames a second and 60 frames a second to 1 frame a second or a hundred a hundredth of a, of a second, you know, depending upon. Yeah,
[00:06:46] Dave Polykoff: Um, do you think that that producer background kind of helped you with giving yourself an eye for how to angle things and kind of, and if so, can you kind of walk us through that?
[00:06:58] John DeMato: Um, [00:07:00] it is the reason why I shoot the way I shoot for multiple reasons. Number one, what I learned on this talk show was the power of emotion and how it compels people. Now, for the show, it was all about. You know, keeping eyeballs glued for ratings and all of that stuff, but translating that to photography was important for me because it made me realize that, you know, if I'm here to help these people connect with others, Aside from the fact that they're experts in their space.
[00:07:34] But, you know, again, if you're in the relationship business, you need to be relatable, relevant, knowledgeable, trustworthy, credible, all of those things, but the, it starts with that emotion. That's the hook. And. I got a lot of experience shooting a lot of emotion on this show, a lot of tears, a lot of fighting, a lot of yelling, and I worked on Maury, by the way, a lot of fighting and screaming and yelling and all that [00:08:00] stuff.
[00:08:00] So it's like, that obviously is an extreme case of emotion, but it still speaks to the point of the power of emotion. And then when we talk about the, you know, Aesthetic of how I shoot essentially the way that I cover a branding session, a live event session, or even the way I shoot a book. It's B roll coverage in my head.
[00:08:23] That's all it is. It's get it from the left, get it from the right, get the shots wide, medium, close, give the editor a full compliment of shots so that they can cover what they need to cover in terms of the interviews that we would, uh, uh, video record. And. With those two things, that really gave me my, uh, style, so to speak.
[00:08:49] It gave me my, my North star on how I create the portfolios that I create.
[00:08:58] Dave Polykoff: What's the importance [00:09:00] of getting professional photographs done? I mean, I feel like a lot of personal brands, maybe we'll start with just kind of the do it yourself thing at home. Maybe get a. Uh, amateur friend to come over and maybe take some pictures against a wall or something, but you know, what, when it comes to your personal brand and wanting to make sure that you're showing up in the best light, like what's, what's the value in actually getting something like what you provide done,
[00:09:27] John DeMato: Well, with professional photos. The goal is always to help enhance your brand. But really what it's about is helping create and foster and reinforce that perception of authority that all of my clients seek, because if they say that they're a 30 grand, a speech keynoter, where are the photos to prove that if you say that you're an empathetic leader.
[00:09:59] Where are the photos [00:10:00] to prove that you run workshops and masterminds? Where are the photos to prove that? That is the entire goal of what visual storytelling is, you know, as, as I said, in the definition before, it's proving your, you know, what you say is true based on how you show up in those images and, and to another extent, professional photos means, you know, you're, you're Presumably working with a professional photographer and preferably a professional branding photographer that specializes in experts because those folks truly understand the importance of getting a wide array of emotions and getting a wide array of visual variety so that their team has enough creative latitude to be able to create a All of these different types of marketing materials and online content and support their website and all of the other touch points to create that [00:11:00] consistency across everything online so that it helps foster that's, uh, that sense of percept of, uh, that perception of authority,
[00:11:11] Dave Polykoff: you may mention a point about making sure that you have a professional show up. So they have that. I saw a video the other day of someone who hired a professional photographer. But they showed up and their equipment was an iPhone and they were freaking out because they were like, I, you said you're a professional photographer, but we didn't know you're going to show up to shoot with an iPhone.
[00:11:35] Can you kind of speak to, I mean, Apple's trying to like bully its way into professional photography world. What's your opinion on kind of the like iPhone photography world and actually showing up with, you know, I don't know, whatever you use. Um, kind of the, the mirrorless or whatnot, professional cameras, like talk about like equipment and kind of the, maybe the battle that might be going on between, [00:12:00] uh, you know, professional photographers and iPhones of
[00:12:03] John DeMato: right? I don't think there is a battle, because in the same way that those experts are trying to attract a certain type of person into their world, so they can learn more about how that expert can solve their problem, you know, everybody that has a camera and calls themselves a professional is putting themselves out there in a way that is A fit for some people and not a fit for others.
[00:12:29] And honestly, all that really matters to me is I, I, I play my own game. I talk to my people. I create that, uh, consistent presence online. I'm there to serve. And, you know, that's really how I feel about that. But I will say something about that. You could still get some pretty cool photos with an iPhone. And as I tell, you know, As I've said many, many, many, many times during, [00:13:00] especially events, branding sessions are a little different cause it's a one on one.
[00:13:04] It's very, uh, it's a much more intimate experience, but when I'm shooting events and I'll walk around and shoot, uh, a keynote or I'm shooting whatever. And then, uh, participants in the audience are like, wow, that's, that that's a big camera. It looks like it takes really great photos. And my answer is always the same.
[00:13:21] It's never the tech. Okay. It's always the operator.
[00:13:26] Dave Polykoff: that. And on that note, for those who maybe do, you know, they don't have the budget yet to get a professional, what are some kind of at home techniques? Like, what, what are people doing kind of wrong when trying to shoot their own photos or just setting up camera setups? And what can they do to maybe improve the photographs that they're trying to take for themselves?
[00:13:49] Like what are the common mistakes people are making that they can just change overnight and help improve their photos?
[00:13:54] John DeMato: Well, they're going, they're flying in blind is what they're doing, which is [00:14:00] ironic, considering that they would never fly in blind to people that pay the money. But yet, when it comes to something like that, they just don't think of it as an important aspect of what they're doing. Meanwhile, it's these images of the front door saying hello to people that don't even know who they are.
[00:14:17] Um, what I would say to those people is. I would start looking up some stuff online and I would buy a tripod or a light stand that amount for your phone. I would look up simple, simple techniques like understand what the rule of thirds is understand, you know, how to leverage available light because these people obviously aren't using flashes or anything like that.
[00:14:42] And I would also say for them to look up some basic editing stuff, where they could crop the image to make it fit wherever it needs to go. At the end of the day, something is better than nothing. And especially if you're an emerging expert, just kind of getting your feet [00:15:00] wet, it might be a big ask to invest several thousand dollars in a branding session, or to invest 1000, 2000, whatever for an event plan.
[00:15:11] Coverage, uh, photographer, you might not be ready for that, but if you're going to take photos of yourself, be more intentional about it.
[00:15:22] Dave Polykoff: And you, you've brought up a couple of times this kind of early discussion about trying to figure out who they are in order to kind of translate that into the, to the photos. What, what are those conversations like as people who want to get professional photographs done? What should we be coming prepared to talk about And, and know about ourselves to kind of help you do your job.
[00:15:45] John DeMato: Well, actually, um, I don't ask them to do anything before they talk to me because I have a list of about 25 questions that I ask them during the strategy call for the branding session for the event call before an event call. [00:16:00] It's less, but basically. And also for the book session before I pick up a camera and take it out of the bag, I'm having a strategy call.
[00:16:09] I don't care how long it is, or how small or big this the shoot is. There has to be a level of strategy. So that. The client and myself are both on the same page and that we have a really solid game plan and also build in time to be able to extemporaneously come up with stuff while we're there and then be able to jump back on to the schedule with the shot sheet.
[00:16:34] Um, I'm asking questions about, um. Um, how they want to be perceived by their audience. What aspects of their personality do they want to convey? How do they solve their clients problems? Is it in a room? Is it in a boardroom? Is it on a laptop or a zoom? Zoom call is it with a whiteboard flip chart using slides?
[00:16:57] Is it 1 on 1 in [00:17:00] person? All of these kinds of questions help dictate the types of candid lifestyle images that need to be captured during that branding session. In addition to the headshot, the wider portraits, where they're sitting at a table in different outfits and different, different, um, backgrounds and then, and then a vertical portrait also for their speaker kits.
[00:17:21] Dave Polykoff: You actually just started to mention a few good points here. So when we're thinking about our personal brands, what are, what's like the list of shots that we should have in our portfolio for the various different use cases and channels and marketing efforts that we have.
[00:17:39] John DeMato: So, it's customized to the expert because everybody's life is a little bit different, but as I kind of. Grazed the topic earlier. We'll dive in a little more. So we have the promotional images, which are the head shots in the portraits and the vertical portrait. Then on the other [00:18:00] side, we have the candid lifestyle portraits of showing the basically showing their audience how the sausage is made.
[00:18:07] What is their process? Whether they are. Client facing or working by themselves. What does all of that look like and get, you know, and in certain cases, it's also capturing some images of other aspects of their life that are very important to them. You know, I, I remember distinctly for a shoot a couple of years ago, uh, my client, uh, has a farm.
[00:18:34] And I shot him on a tractor and I photographed them on a horse, you know, all these things, um, obviously, and sometimes I've, I've shot clients on their boats. You know, if that's something that they do, um, and it's also other things like, you know, when you brainstorm ideas, do you write in a, in a moleskin you doing voice recording or are you, uh, you know, [00:19:00] typing, whatever.
[00:19:01] All of those things matter because they all reveal an aspect with a fly on the wall type of vantage point to their audience, what it actually looks like to be in this person's world.
[00:19:15] Dave Polykoff: One thing, when I was checking out your, your photos that I felt like you had a good use of angles that I don't typically see. You know, usually it's kind of like shot at eye level or something, but you kind of, sometimes you give like a audience perspective, looks, stuff like that. Can you kind of walk us through what, when you're shooting someone, what are the things that are going through your head of like, how do I, what needs to be applied to this shot in order to capture their essence correctly?
[00:19:44] Can
[00:19:45] John DeMato: right. Well, it's a combination of things. Um, I mean, the fir the first part is step back, uh, high levelly. I walk through the, the location that I'm shooting these branding [00:20:00] sessions, right? Before the, the, I start working with the client, I'm walking around with the shot sheet and I'm observing the different play spaces around and kind of visualizing, you know, what would be a good place for the 1 on 1 conversation?
[00:20:14] What would be a good area for the headshot? What would look good? Great for, uh, some wider portraits and which board room are we going to select for them to write on the whiteboard and then, uh, recreate them facilitating in front of an audience when there's nobody in there, but me and and the client and then once I have identified those areas, the client is sat, then it's a matter of directing them to get a posture that feels natural to them because I don't pose anybody.
[00:20:46] Ever, never, ever, ever. Essentially what I'm doing is saying, you're in this position right now, you're sitting at this table or you're leaning against this wall and then set up a scenario and say, well, what would you be [00:21:00] doing with your hands? What would you be doing with your face? And then those words that I asked them for about their, how they want to be perceived and their personality, I'm firing them at them.
[00:21:11] And that's what's changing their. Body language slightly and their facial expression and then the goal is, what does it look like from a 300 if possible 360 degree view over shoulder low angle, high angle, wide, medium, close. Justified to the left, justified to the right, all of these different types of shots, because at the end of the day, my job is to get as much variety as possible and choosing the right location for certain types of activities, uh, leads to that.
[00:21:47] So that that's ultimately the goal and that's how I find those angles.
[00:21:52] Dave Polykoff: you walk us through a few examples? I mean, you mentioned a few clients that you've worked with and how you've. Shot with them, but maybe just kind [00:22:00] of an example of someone came to you and had absolutely nothing and maybe they were a speaker. They needed all these assets and then you were able to create those, those assets for them and then how they use them in practice.
[00:22:16] Just kind of like paint the picture of. Of what a typical client might go through and then kind of what the after after painting looks like there
[00:22:23] John DeMato: Sure. So in the beginning, there. Most experts will come to me and they, they know what they need, right? They know what they need. So, and this is not in the strategy call. This is in the inquiry call. And as they're telling me what they need, which is generally. I need to update my website and it kind of ends there.
[00:22:48] I'm like, well, what about, do you have social channels? Do you use, uh, images for online content? And what are your profile pictures looking like? And are [00:23:00] you a part of any professional trade associations that need images for that? And then you start asking more and more questions. And then it's like, well, how do you solve your client's problems?
[00:23:10] Do you do this, this, this, like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'm talking to them about why those images are important. And we touched a little bit on that already here. But that's what I do in that call. And then that's what solidifies the how much time they're going to spend with me in front of the camera on the day of the session.
[00:23:31] Uh, or on the strategy call, we go through all of the questions that I mentioned before. And as they're talking, I'm taking notes and as I'm taking notes at the end of that call, that's when, um, I read everything back to them. So they know. What to wear, what props to bring, where the location is, and, uh, any other specific information that is relevant and valuable to our session.
[00:23:58] And then during the [00:24:00] session, it, that's the fun part. I think, I think it's the fun part now for some of them, but not exactly that jazz to be in front of the camera. And the good thing is because of the inquiry call, because of the strategy call. Whether I just met them off the street or not, it doesn't matter because in those calls, part of my job on the sub textural level is to gain rapport with them to see how they're responding to the way that I'm talking to them.
[00:24:30] It's a way for me to make 1st of all, make sure that they're going to respond to my tone, which is, um. I'd say a little bit of an acquired taste sometimes when I'm shooting, so I just got to make sure that they're not going to get pissed off at me. But, um, we have a good time with it. And then after the session, literally after the session, whether I'm on the road and I'm heading to the airport, or it's a home game here somewhere in New York, um, I'm editing the photos and my job is to [00:25:00] turn them around, Generally speaking, I say two to three days.
[00:25:04] They usually get it within 12 to 15 hours.
[00:25:08] Dave Polykoff: You mentioned something there in terms of people are uncomfortable to be in front of the camera I think that is like a universal truth By default, and I know I've tried to get professional, uh, photographs taken of me, and it took a while to kind of like, warm up to the camera and such what's typically kind of the way someone can get a little bit out of their head and warmed up and just getting the best shots for them, um, that may be a practices that you do while you're on site, or maybe things that they can come prepared with that.
[00:25:39] Just help them again, get out of their head and just feel comfortable and natural in front of the camera.
[00:25:44] John DeMato: You sound like a challenge. I like that. I like challenges. Um, what do I do? Well, first of all, I actually pay attention to what they say in those first two calls and I usually use that in dialogue with [00:26:00] them. Secondly, I am a smart ass and I'm super sarcastic and the stereotypical New Yorker with the accent.
[00:26:08] So I, um. Layer that on to be able to get their attention and really, uh, another piece is constant. Constant direction. I do not shut up. And here's why the more that I talk, the more the client has to listen, the less likely they'll be in their head because they're going to be more present to actually listen to what I'm saying.
[00:26:37] And if that is still, they're still getting warmed up. You know, sometimes I have to put on the cheerleader hat and pump them up. Sometimes I have to put the therapist hat on, put the camera down and talk to them like a human being and take a breath so that I can get them back into the present moment.
[00:26:57] And sometimes I have to be the motivational kick in [00:27:00] the ass to be like, we got to get this going because we have a ton of work to do. And there's only two hours left and, but it's all done in a way. And in a tone that I know has been, um, Qualified by them for a lack of a better word. I know that they're going to resonate with it because, you know, we've already gone down this path so far.
[00:27:21] So it's a mixed bag to get people out of their heads, drop their guard, be natural and genuine and show genuine expression. But once you get them there, that's when the magic happens.
[00:27:35] Dave Polykoff: And what can someone expect, maybe just like an introductory package, even for a price range, and it doesn't have to be your price range, but on average for a professional in your at your status, like an introductory package for professional package of photographs and then. How would you then with that price range, how would you then kind of give the [00:28:00] justification for the investment of how that's going to earn, you know, us, us, uh, uh, professional branders, a, uh, an ROI from that investment.
[00:28:12] John DeMato: Well, the range typically for, um, Yeah. You know, a seasoned branding photographer could range, you know, and, you know, for me personally, I can tell you, I have a 2 hour, a 4 hour and a 6 hour session. It ranges from 3, 000 to 9, 500. That's somewhere in the upper middle section. For some people, it might be, uh, on the higher end and for others, it's on the lower end, but I'm somewhere in the middle.
[00:28:40] The middle upper area, um, and you could definitely find people that are less and you also can run into people that are more and then in terms of the ROI, the way that I describe it to people is that, you know, if you're looking to rebrand and you're [00:29:00] looking to be able to position yourself. As this new, uh, or as this evolved expert and you've raised your rates and you have all of these services, you know, what is the cost of you to go and find an amateur photographer or someone who does not specialize in serving people like you to go through a whole process, spend a chunk of money, maybe not Top dollar, but you're spending a chunk and then when the photos come back, none of them are usable or at most two And here's the thing.
[00:29:37] The answer is that's a crappy situation that I've actually had to clean up on several occasions. And it kind of puts me in that. I feel, you know, I feel bad for this person because they spent in some cases more money on the photographer that they hired than me. And I'm coming in to do a triage, you know, branding session over here.
[00:29:58] So it really [00:30:00] boils down to, um, understanding that when you don't hire an expert, that you run the risk. Of having to pay double,
[00:30:13] Dave Polykoff: That, and if someone was interested in moving forward with you, um, how would they find you and how could they get started with you?
[00:30:22] John DeMato: just send up a bad signal. I'll be on the lookout for it. I mean, you know, uh, the best place to find me would be my website. John, the motto. com. You can shoot me an email. I'm all over the internets on the socials, uh, the model photo on Instagram. And you can find me on Facebook and LinkedIn, all that fun stuff.
[00:30:42] And, um, if someone were to want to learn more about visual storytelling and what it is that. You know, I bring to the table. Uh, I have a blog that I put out and you can sign up for that on my website as well.
[00:30:59] Dave Polykoff: Definitely check [00:31:00] that out. That's all for today's episode of personal brand blueprint. A big thank you to John for being on today's episode and teaching us the power of visual storytelling to help us grow and monetize our personal brands. To learn more about how to launch, grow and monetize your personal brand.
[00:31:15] Make sure you subscribe to the personal brand blueprint podcast. Follow me, Dave Poff on LinkedIn as well as John, and check out zen post.com to see how we can work together directly to help you grow and monetize your personal brand. Uh, all links to those will be in the show notes, be uh, below, as well as all the links for John Services as well.
[00:31:35] And thank you and see you on the next episode of the Personal Brand Blueprint.
