[00:00:00] Dave Polykoff: You are a coach consultant or freelancer, who's struggling to charge your client, the amount that you believe your services are worth, then this episode is for you because today I'm joined by Ann Carden of Amazon. A Carden Inc. She is a business consultant who helps people grow their online presence, grow their personal brand authority so that they can start charging their clients more money.
[00:00:26] Dave Polykoff: So we're going to get into all of that today and welcome to the show.
[00:00:30] Ann Carden: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:00:33] Dave Polykoff: Wonderful. So what I want to know is you help people grow their businesses, a business consultant, business growth consultant that has a pretty powerful, uh, role and title. Everyone wants to grow their business. So what are some of the kind of highlights of your career that has led you to be able to fill this position and help people grow their businesses?
[00:00:56] Ann Carden: Hmm. Great question. So I've been an entrepreneur for [00:01:00] 34 years, 35 years, I guess. This is my sixth and seventh business. I've sold the five previous businesses. Um, I've been coaching for about 14, a little over 14 years. So I worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs, business owners, people that, um, are really trying to grow their small business.
[00:01:19] Ann Carden: And I, oh my gosh, I've worked in over 80 different industries. So I have a lot of depth and expertise. I came into the online world several years ago. And for the last several years, I have been building, uh, my expert in you brand, which there's a story behind how I came into all that. But working with coaches, consultants, professional entrepreneurs, mostly people that are, uh, really working with B2B or professional clients.
[00:01:48] Ann Carden: Okay.
[00:01:50] Dave Polykoff: I mean, having such depth and 80 different industries, it means in our audience today, there's something for everyone. I imagine that we can get [00:02:00] into. So, um, so today we want to talk about the idea that, I mean, I think a lot of. Coaches, consultants, freelancers, we get a little bit of imposter syndrome sometimes, or maybe just fear of, should I be charging this amount of money for my services?
[00:02:18] Dave Polykoff: You know, maybe it's a little bit, you get a little heady with it. Um, and you don't know, you know, what's my value. What is a client willing to charge or willing to pay? And, I think what you're saying here is it really comes down to the value, the perceived value of your, what your client believes of you and your services.
[00:02:42] Dave Polykoff: So the larger that we can grow our perceived value, the more clients willing to pay. So let's talk about one. How do we, what, what's kind of the definition of perceived value for. A coach consultant or a freelancer. Like [00:03:00] how, how do we, how are we defining that when a client is evaluating, you know, if they're willing to pay a certain amount of money for our services.
[00:03:09] Ann Carden: Yeah, great question. So one thing that you kind of said in there that I would just like to Speak on because this is where a lot of people get imposter syndrome You said something about your value. It's it has nothing to do with you just fyi So when people are paying big bucks when they're paying big fees, like I have a client that's close to four hundred and thirteen thousand dollar client Um, she was a social media client.
[00:03:34] Ann Carden: So When people are paying fees like that, they are looking for the service that you can provide to them. And then what is the impact that's going to have for them? So what is the result or the outcome or the impact that it's going to have in their world? And why should they invest in that? And, and so the price has to make sense, but it really doesn't have anything to do with you, except [00:04:00] are you truthful?
[00:04:02] Ann Carden: Can you really deliver? Can you do what you say you can do? So that whole credibility piece, and that's where, you know, building that online brand, that personal brand really comes into play. You want to influence buyers so that they, when they look at your pricing, they think, wow, that's really reasonable for The results or the impact that I'm going to get so you really want your offers to be a no brainer and when you can structure them like that, um, the other piece comes down to your target market.
[00:04:32] Ann Carden: You, if you're trying to sell a hundred thousand dollar package to someone that doesn't have a job, that's going to be tough. Right? Um, but if you're trying to sell that to a business that is thriving, and, And successful, and this is a piece that they need or a solution or something that they're missing.
[00:04:53] Ann Carden: They, if they see the value in that, they will invest. So a lot of it comes down to your target market. It comes down to [00:05:00] believability, and then it comes down to having a higher perceived value. What is that worth to the qu to the client? Mm-Hmm.
[00:05:08] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. So you mentioned believability and I assume, you know, what's wrapped into that is also trust. And. Largely, I guess you can kind of differentiate these two things with your offer and then you as the individual. So do I believe that your offer can live up to the claims that you're making about it and then.
[00:05:33] Dave Polykoff: Specifically as a personal brand, specifically, you know, if you're a coach, consultant, freelancer, and you're providing the service itself, or you're basically putting your name and you're attaching it to the offer as to say, like, I'm verifying this works because I've done it for myself. And I have years of experience and blah, blah, blah.
[00:05:54] Dave Polykoff: Then they kind of need to buy into you as the individual of like, okay, I trust that you have the [00:06:00] experience, the know how, et cetera. So do you see that as like a, you need to convince people, not just that you as the individual are competent enough to be a coach consultant, freelancer for the client, but also I then sell me on the idea of your service that now you also have to pitch me on that.
[00:06:18] Dave Polykoff: Are those two different things that we need to pitch or are those all kind of wrapped into the same pitch to the client?
[00:06:25] Ann Carden: Yeah, so I, I am a big believer attract, don't convince if you're having to convince people you've got the wrong people or there's some sort of a breakdown in your marketing and sales or your offer. There's a problem there. There is a problem that you are having to overcome. So you don't ever I always say, and this is it may be a great takeaway for everyone is you're looking for the people looking for you.
[00:06:47] Ann Carden: So who is looking for you? Who wants what you can deliver? Who is resonating with the marketing that you're putting out there? Who is saying, Oh my gosh, that sounds [00:07:00] amazing. I want that. I want to talk to this person. So when we talk about building an online brand and building influence, to me, that is almost like pre selling you when that's done right.
[00:07:11] Ann Carden: And so it's, your marketing should be doing the heavy lifting for you. And so when they come to you, they're almost ready to buy. They've been able to check you out. That's the power of building up your personal brand, building up, um, everything that people see that that's such an important piece because all of that helps the believability, it helps the trust, it helps the credibility.
[00:07:34] Ann Carden: Also, if people can, if you can clearly articulate how you can help them, that is where that believability and trust comes in. So I also sharing stories and client testimonials and social proof. All of those things are important, or this is how I did it. Um, this is what worked for me. One of the reasons I have this model.
[00:07:56] Ann Carden: I call it a top down approach. It's like sell your big, big thing [00:08:00] first. That's how you position yourself in the market. And then everything else is a downsell. It's easier to downsell people into things than it is to upsell people. And so if you start at the top and let's say you want to sell a hundred thousand dollar offer and you position yourself in the market for as being the premium person for that, and you back all of that up with, you know, You're educating your audience in content.
[00:08:24] Ann Carden: You're doing things like this. You're getting on a podcast. You're letting people dive deep into what it is you do and ask questions and, and you can speak to all of those things with authority to show people that you really do know what you're doing. Well, that is how you move people down the buyer's journey.
[00:08:40] Ann Carden: So now they are ready, um, when they come to you. So when people book a call with me so often, more times than not, they say, I already checked you out. I already know you're the person I wanna work with. Um, tell me what that looks like. That's a very different call than having to convince [00:09:00] someone. So that's the power of a personal brand and building that influence in the market and that authority.
[00:09:05] Ann Carden: Um, that was a long-winded answer, but did that answer your question? Mm-Hmm.
[00:09:10] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. Well, I think that last part you mentioned where people are coming to you and saying, I've already checked out your stuff and. I'm sold. It could be I'm sold on you. Right. So like whatever, whatever you're selling, I'm buying, you know, um, and maybe they don't even know about the details of your offer, but they know I'm sold on you.
[00:09:29] Dave Polykoff: So I know that if you're, you have an offer put together, it's probably premium and worth it. Um, you know, or they also know about your offer and they're just automatically ready to swipe a card because. They just, they know the two things are sometimes the same thing. So for example, I just recently invested into my online personal brand brand visual identity.
[00:09:53] Dave Polykoff: So, you know, what is the aesthetic of my online brand, you know, the banner image [00:10:00] for LinkedIn profile, the, uh, quote cards and the carousels and all that kind of stuff. I had been following this account, um, Nick big shout out, um, on LinkedIn and. I loved all of his designs, every post that he would publish as a scroll stopper.
[00:10:17] Dave Polykoff: I would stop, want to consume it, just loved his eye for design. And one day I stumbled onto a post where he, it was a case study of how he created a brand identity for someone else, you know, went through it, saw the steps that were involved, saw the deliverables. And he was at the end of it. He had a call to action.
[00:10:37] Dave Polykoff: Hey, I'm doing this for a few more clients if you're interested. And I DM right away. I was pre sold because. I was already sold on him and like, you know, not, I wouldn't say any price tag I would have taken, but you know, it was, it was a need. I already had a need. I was ready to already invest into that.
[00:10:53] Dave Polykoff: And just by, you know, already being sold on the individual. So that's, so it's kind of like [00:11:00] proof of proof of concept. You need to make sure you're showing up with that. What, what are some other ways that we can make sure we're showing up, whether it be social content, or as you mentioned, some of these things like guest interviews, where it just adds to our clout, our, um, reputation, our credibility, so that we're getting in front of our ideal client and they're seeing us in a better light so that they're getting more pre sold.
[00:11:27] Dave Polykoff: Oh,
[00:11:29] Ann Carden: I love that question because some of the things that we help people do is get their book done. So if they don't have an expert book, a lot of people, and a lot of people write books, they know they need a book. Like I want to get on more stages. I want to be seen as more credible or have more authority.
[00:11:43] Ann Carden: So I know I need to do book. But a lot of times people do books that really don't lead people to their services. And so you really need an expert. An expert book is really a breakdown. Uh, it there's, there's several things in it. There's credibility in it. There's [00:12:00] your story in it. Uh, but then there's also your process in it.
[00:12:03] Ann Carden: Like what does make you different and where, why did you come? How did you come up with, um, what you came up with? Right. And, and how is that different? And how the, how can that help people? And so. Having an expert book can really also open doors for you. It can also just think about it. When you think of somebody who has a book there, there's just a level that it's like they're a level up right there.
[00:12:27] Ann Carden: And not that anybody's better than anybody else, but it just, let's face it. We, it just builds some credibility. The other thing is getting published in the media. Um, speaking, those are all big ways to build credibility and build influence, um, in the market as well. And so I, you know, I just, uh, launched, I actually, let me just show it.
[00:12:48] Ann Carden: I just, I'm proud of it. We just did, uh, our first magazine. It's and it's to build on my expert in you brand. But one of the reasons I did this Dave is because I can feature some of my clients in here [00:13:00] and help them build up their influence, but other people can, um, can pay to be in it as well, or advertised in it.
[00:13:07] Ann Carden: But, um, media is another great way to get exposure, to build that influence, be seen as more premium. These are all things that level you up. They're all things that make you look like the Lamborghini and not the cheap use car.
[00:13:24] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think an important point here is people are at different stages of their personal brand. Some people are on the sidelines and they want to get into the game and, you know, writing a book might feel out of reach, um, while that's true or not. It's mentally, I think it's a limiting belief that people would have when they're on the sidelines.
[00:13:49] Dave Polykoff: So. Let's maybe talk about then some zero to one stuff of, you know, some smaller, quicker, freer ways to just [00:14:00] level up and get a little bit more premium. And I think that that is, I think more so maybe your social content, maybe just how you're presenting yourself on areas where your audience already is and whatnot.
[00:14:12] Dave Polykoff: Um, but is there any kind of like zero to one things that. Someone who wants to launch a personal brand and wants to just establish themselves a little bit, put themselves above, you know, the 95 percent of the other people who are on online, but not really representing themselves. Well, what, what's some of the like quick, quick wind stuff that we could do.
[00:14:32] Ann Carden: Oh gosh. There's so many, there's so many things you can do. Actually. Um, the one thing I would say though, before you do that, like if we talk about the foundation of building a business or starting a business, Because I've started multiple businesses. When you start with something that you're already really good at.
[00:14:48] Ann Carden: And we talked about imposter syndrome. Uh, one of the reasons I started the Expert in You brand is because. People were trying to sell things that they weren't experts in or had never done. [00:15:00] For example, a school teacher trying to become a business coach. Okay. Kind of a misalignment there, right? So what I found is that people were trying to learn things and buy into things and buy into programs to try to learn something to build a business around.
[00:15:14] Ann Carden: When in reality, most people already have things they've done. They've been exceptional at, um, whether that is a stay at home mom who Has six kids and has learned how to navigate. I mean, everyone has things that they're really good at and can do. And so my very first, uh, advice, bit of advice for somebody is work in something that you already are confident.
[00:15:39] Ann Carden: in doing That is your faster path. First of all, um, once you are doing that, you know, don't, don't try to go out and reinvent the wheel. What is close and near and dear to your heart? So all of my businesses really started out of something that I was passionate about and was good at. And I would move into that as a business.
[00:15:59] Ann Carden: [00:16:00] Well, when you go out and just start talking to people and say, Hey, I'm, I'm doing this. Are you interested? The credibility was already there because you've already done it for yourself. So that's the first thing. But we have, I built a lot of businesses offline before I ever came online and we have never had the opportunities that we have today in the marketplace because right now you are one place in the world.
[00:16:22] Ann Carden: I'm another place in the world and look what we're doing. So you can guest on podcasts. That's a great way to get started. You can live stream all the platforms. Allow you to be live streaming. Um, if you want to get more premium, you know, LinkedIn is a, is a incredible playground for that. Get very. Active on platforms, let people see you, but also build your network, build your audience and bring, you know, there's outbound and inbound that you have to do if you're going to build, especially if you're going to be seen online.
[00:16:55] Ann Carden: So you want to make sure that you're doing the outbound work to get the [00:17:00] inbound results. So make sure you're connecting with the right people. Getting them into your world, into your ecosystem, speaking, I built a lot of businesses through speaking. I even, when I was in corporate for 13 years, I would even go out and speak for them.
[00:17:15] Ann Carden: So, speaking is a really easy way for people to get started, but all of those things are also very high impact marketing strategies. Anytime you're using a one to many approach, you're using an approach where it's sort of elevate. Um, you as an authority, as an expert, as somebody who's doing bigger things, those are faster.
[00:17:37] Ann Carden: Those are faster paths to, to really getting something off the ground. So just go out and speak.
[00:17:43] Hey, Dave here... obviously, but I want to just pause this episode real quick and say, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Brand Science. I hope that you're getting as much value as a viewer or listener as I've gotten as a host.
[00:17:57] And if you are getting value from this [00:18:00] episode, It must mean that you enjoy nerding out on all things personal branding, content creation, and strategy, which means you're my type of person. So I want to connect. Once you're done this episode, go down to the show notes where you'll find my LinkedIn profile. Click on that link, head over to my profile and send me a request. When you send the request, there'll be that little pop-up that comes up, that you can add a note in the request.
[00:18:25] Just tell me that you found me from a brand science episode so I know that you are one of those loyal, awesome listeners of mine. And let's connect and learn together. Anyway, just want to say, love you. Thanks for listening. Let's connect on LinkedIn and a yeah. Back to the episode.
[00:18:41] Dave Polykoff: I think you made an important, uh, important point early on about not showing up to say something. Around a topic that you really don't have something to say
[00:18:54] Ann Carden: Yes.
[00:18:55] Dave Polykoff: yeah, it's, it's one thing, one of [00:19:00] the tactics there that if you are interested in something, but don't have the experience, this is something that, you know, I've kind of consulted on before is the idea that instead of coming across as the preacher or the professor or the expert is you really.
[00:19:16] Dave Polykoff: Then want to start more as like the journalist or the curator or the scientist. So you don't have the receipts to back up and say, like, I've success as a teacher, you know, uh, I can successfully be a business consultant. Uh, you might be interested in that topic, but.
[00:19:31] Ann Carden: Mm hmm.
[00:19:32] Dave Polykoff: You don't have the receipts to back up what you want to offer the market.
[00:19:37] Dave Polykoff: So instead take more of the approach of the curator, like here are five other business consultants who are crushing it online and here's their tactics or the journalist of like, here's a big industry news thing that came out and you all should know it and like grow your credibility over time. But yeah, I think it's really important where.
[00:19:55] Dave Polykoff: It's tough to convince and convert people if you don't [00:20:00] have the, the receipts. Um, so yeah, in terms of like our topic today, where it's, you know, grow your credibility, your, your industry clout in order to charge more, well, make sure you have the receipts behind that first and foremost to do it. Um, you mentioned.
[00:20:18] Dave Polykoff: That someone had come to you or a lot of people come to you, I guess, and say, like, I'm pre sold, you know, I've seen you here. You're there in the 3rd. Um, is there a channel that typically is like the 1 that's just been crushing it for you? Like, what's, what's kind of if you were to break down your. Your sales channels or your, um, your discovery channels of where people are finding you the most, where, what would you say is like the most valuable for you?
[00:20:46] Ann Carden: Yeah, LinkedIn is my playground for sure, and it's where I move most of my clients to because I'm helping them get premium clients, getting high end clients. So LinkedIn is our major, uh, platform for that. But then I'm also on [00:21:00] Facebook. I'm sort of on Instagram. It's not my main place. Um, I have a YouTube channel.
[00:21:05] Ann Carden: They can go to my website and get a lot of free resources too. So they can opt in for training videos and they can grab my book on. So it's sort of the. culmination of all of those things really when people are checking you out, they're going to just check you out. But, but here's what I will tell people.
[00:21:23] Ann Carden: And this is a really great takeaway for everyone is build up your Google presence. So, um, if you go and Google me, in fact, I just did this with a workshop yesterday. I said, let's do an incognito window, which means you're, you know, kind of black to your computer and you search your name. What, how many pages are you coming up?
[00:21:41] Ann Carden: And so people, that's typically how people will find me is they'll come across me and then they'll just Google my name and it's like, Oh, okay, well, there's this and there's this and there's so many ways they can go check me out. And so it's just having that whole broad. Um, impact online, having that presence, [00:22:00] having that digital footprint.
[00:22:01] Ann Carden: But LinkedIn is definitely where I do most of my marketing. Um, and I would say some on Facebook, but LinkedIn is my primary place.
[00:22:12] Dave Polykoff: I don't want to get too in the weeds of content strategy, but I am a content strategy nerd. And, you know, largely, well, good. Maybe we'll, we'll we're nerd out here. Bear with us a little bit, but so you're posting on LinkedIn and that's maybe a large, it sounds like the largest kind of discovery channel for you.
[00:22:31] Dave Polykoff: And. You, but you have your other outlets, you know, podcasts, YouTube, et cetera. How are you, if at all, kind of working those two things? Together where you mentioned like, well, people are going to check you out. Are you banking on, okay, they find you on LinkedIn and then they're Googling you and then discovering the, your YouTube and your other channels, or are you promoting those other channels through your LinkedIn content to drive them to [00:23:00] longer form content so they can spend more time with you?
[00:23:02] Dave Polykoff: Like how, how are you interweaving those things as a, as a blueprint?
[00:23:07] Ann Carden: Yeah. I mean, typically I'll repurpose anything on LinkedIn, on Facebook as well, and even on YouTube. So if they, so they can find it, any of those places. But I have strategies that I use on LinkedIn. So one of the things that I do is I. Create events on LinkedIn. I'll go live on LinkedIn. Yeah, that's a really easy thing.
[00:23:26] Ann Carden: You know, if you want to start getting exposure, you know, first of all, you have to do the outreach to get people into your network. You, you can't, you have to build an audience or you have to build a network, but you can go live on LinkedIn. The newsletter feature is extremely, LinkedIn if people are not using the newsletter feature on LinkedIn, because LinkedIn loves their newsletters and they are pushing those out.
[00:23:48] Ann Carden: So, if you, if you really have a great strategy behind the newsletter, you can start getting traction with that. And then you can have a call to action on that newsletter, but live streaming, [00:24:00] running events. LinkedIn has a great events. You know, a great event. Tool as well. So all of there's so many, they have an audio event tool.
[00:24:09] Ann Carden: So there's so many different ways to get traction on LinkedIn. There's not one right or wrong way. It's really about having the right strategy for you. It should be customized for who you're trying to reach. And these are some of the things that I work with my clients on. We create customized strategies because if they're going for a high level CEO, that strategy is going to be very different.
[00:24:32] Ann Carden: Excuse me. If they're looking for. Startup entrepreneurs, they're just going to be different strategies. So knowing who you're trying to target is going to come into play here. But, um, with LinkedIn, again, I know how to, to get to my, you know, get to the people that I'm looking for, but all of my strategies kind of feed each other.
[00:24:53] Ann Carden: So for example, my podcast brings me clients when I guest on podcast, I get clients when I [00:25:00] run, you know, things on LinkedIn, I get. I'll get people that way. So they, but they all really feed each other. Anytime you're doing high impact like that, but just repurpose things as well. So you're cross promoting on different platforms.
[00:25:14] Ann Carden: You don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time. So if I do a LinkedIn live, for example, that's also going to, going to go up on YouTube, or I may even be live streaming on YouTube. We have the platforms to do those things. So we can really be everywhere, but without having to kill ourselves.
[00:25:31] Dave Polykoff: Sure. What I think. If I, if I'm kind of able to summarize some of the things you're talking about today, you've mentioned some things about, you know, podcasting, YouTube, audio on LinkedIn, newsletters. Some of these things don't necessarily require too much of a lift. Some do, but I, I think that's also maybe, and tell me if you agree is kind of part of [00:26:00] why it adds to the credibility because only those who are, who are Most serious in what they're doing are going to invest the time, money, headache into, uh, into producing some of these things, you know, the podcast I've talked about it's, you know, I've, I've started to hand off some of the production to, um, you know, assistance and such, but it's still time and it's an investment and such.
[00:26:23] Dave Polykoff: So, you know, we talked about the ROI of it after the, uh, before this podcast. So I think an element to it is maybe just, you know, Mentally, if I see that you have a podcast, if you are a speaker and you talked about kind of that credibility check of just like being a speaker, having a book is what you said, um, I, I think part of that reason is because the lift to actually do it.
[00:26:48] Dave Polykoff: Part of it is the lift to actually accomplish that means that you have to be serious and have spent time in the industry to accomplish it or stick with it. And then [00:27:00] ideally the value you get within it, if that's also valuable, it means that you know, What you're talking about as well. So like, just, just having a podcast doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a good podcast or having a book doesn't mean that it's a good book.
[00:27:14] Dave Polykoff: Um, but it's at least, it's like part of the sniff test to be like,
[00:27:18] Ann Carden: But it's better than no book or no podcast, right?
[00:27:22] Dave Polykoff: Right.
[00:27:22] Ann Carden: Yeah. And a lot of people don't get started because they think perfection. They think every, you know, I'm, I've written three books getting ready to write a fourth. Um, I look back at my first book and even though it has a lot of value and everything in it.
[00:27:36] Ann Carden: I, you know, it still isn't my favorite book, right? It was my first book. Um, and so you, but here's the thing. If you don't ever start, if you don't think that way, if you don't think here's the takeaway for people, every business that I've ever done. For myself, I always wanted to sort of be at the top of my game.
[00:27:58] Ann Carden: I always look for [00:28:00] ways to set myself apart from everyone else in the industry, from other people. And I I've done that in every one of my businesses. And so if you kind of have that, I've always looked for how can I have excellence and I'm not, I'm not the best. I'm not a billionaire, a Grant Cardone. I'm not.
[00:28:19] Ann Carden: And, and so, but how can I be the best for me and how can I keep moving forward and keep getting better? And if people started kind of being in competition with themselves more than what other people, you know, more than the industry. It would be amazing what people can accomplish. And so for me, it's like, if I'm not playing my biggest game, that doesn't sit well with me.
[00:28:46] Ann Carden: And so if you kind of look at things that way, everything's progressive. Like I have, I don't know, 800 something videos, I think on YouTube. But if you go back, And look at like those first videos. It's like, I really want to pull them down. [00:29:00] They're so bad. I remember my first Facebook live 14 years ago, I was shaking.
[00:29:04] Ann Carden: It was the worst thing ever, but I had to get started somehow, some way. Right. And, and now I, I mean, this is just so second nature to me. I don't even think about it anymore. Like I just hop on a podcast and, and do my thing. And so you'll get better and you just have to be willing. To do what other people aren't if you are always willing to do take those steps that other people aren't willing to do and get out of your comfort zone, you're going to be unstoppable.
[00:29:33] Ann Carden: It's limitless what you can achieve.
[00:29:37] Dave Polykoff: You mentioned You know, your first video back in the day, uh, on YouTube. Um, so when you were just first getting started, I mean, what we really want to, uh, what we're talking about today is increasing your authority, your online cloud, um, so that you
[00:29:56] Ann Carden: seen, you want to be seen, right?
[00:29:59] Dave Polykoff: [00:30:00] so how was that early days for you when you didn't have that, you weren't being seen as much. And you didn't have the podcast, you didn't have YouTube. Maybe you were just getting started on LinkedIn and you were doing some outreach because you mentioned, you know, DMS and outreach, and that's part of your, your strategy.
[00:30:18] Dave Polykoff: But early days, how was that when you did, you did your cold outreach? Was it tougher to get people on the, on the phone because you didn't have that. Clout and credibility yet, or when you did go to sell them, were they, uh, I don't know about you type of thing, but then what, if that's the case, like, how did that progress over time?
[00:30:39] Dave Polykoff: And what was kind of that, that growth and where you were like, Oh, well, I mean, check all this stuff out. You know, I can charge, you can feel more confident. Your client can feel more confident. Like what, what was that growth like from, from where you started to today?
[00:30:52] Ann Carden: So good. So, um, first of all, when I came online, um, I [00:31:00] worked with a coaching org, and I was part of a coaching organization for business coaches. And the way I actually fell into working with coaches and consultants is I was part of this organization and I was doing most of my marketing offline and, and get speaking and getting clients and a lot of, most of their coaches, there were a couple hundred were struggling.
[00:31:21] Ann Carden: And I kind of took a step back from what they were teaching. And I, I started thinking about all my past businesses and Why isn't this business working the way my other ones did? And I, I really figured out, Oh, you're, you're trying to do volume. You're trying to get people at low fees versus, um, premium, which is what you've always done in all your businesses.
[00:31:42] Ann Carden: And even what you've taught clients. And so when I made that shift and figured that out and, and how to really kind of specialize, all of a sudden my business just blew up and people were giving me referrals and my coaching business took off. Well, this particular company. was kind of [00:32:00] elevating me in their company because I was having this major success, but I wasn't having success with their stuff.
[00:32:05] Ann Carden: I was having success because I figured out a different way to do it, but they kept putting me like on their ask the expert calls and all this. So naturally that co coaches, they, I was started working with coaches. Naturally they were coming to me and how are you doing this? And, and I found that I was sort of building this other company's business.
[00:32:25] Ann Carden: Because I was helping their coaches when in reality they were the ones getting paid to help the coaches. So, um, so for in, in a way it kind of found me and I thought, okay, there's obviously a need here. Let me start doing this, and. And building my business around this. And so I kind of made that shift then to working with professional entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, teaching them all the same thing that I do.
[00:32:50] Ann Carden: But, um, so it, so once I, once I kind of really figured that out, I started looking at, okay, how I want to be able to do [00:33:00] this online. I want to be able to travel all of those things. And I just started looking for ways to be able to do that. But I also invested in coaches. I didn't learn everything myself. I am always a believer and should take the shortcut.
[00:33:13] Ann Carden: Um, and I wish I would have had coaches for many, many years when I was building my business and they weren't around. We didn't have them. I didn't know about them if they were. And when I worked with my first coach, it was such a game changer. I thought I'm never, I'm never going to sit there and waste the time anymore trying to figure stuff out.
[00:33:31] Ann Carden: Now, sometimes you make a bad investment and, um, it doesn't work out the way you want, but you always learn something and everything you learn moves you forward one step forward. So, um, anyways, but I, I didn't just really say, okay, how do I want to start here? It kind of found me and then I started looking for ways to sort of elevate that and, and be seen by more people and all of that.
[00:33:55] Ann Carden: Does that make sense?
[00:33:56] Dave Polykoff: Well, yeah, it sounds like you, [00:34:00] you kind of, uh, Behind the curtain, we're closing deals and seeing success and getting the receipts. And then you translated that success.
[00:34:12] Ann Carden: True.
[00:34:13] Dave Polykoff: So going back to what we talked about earlier with like, making sure that you actually have the experience and success before you start translating that into a personal brand, public, personal brand is, is important. So it just makes it way, way easier. Um,
[00:34:28] Ann Carden: did it on Facebook, too. Just, just FYI, Facebook was easy at that time. This was many years ago. It was easy to build a Facebook group. I mean, there weren't a million of them like there are now. Um, but it was easy to build a Facebook group, curate your audience, bring people in. I would teach.
[00:34:46] Ann Carden: I was always on video teaching. I on my whiteboard, always just giving away, giving away, teaching people what I knew. And that is how I would get clients. It's like, I wouldn't hold back, but I, we [00:35:00] know execution, you know, knowing what to do and how to do it are two very different things. Um, because it's in the execution, it's the details in the execution.
[00:35:10] Ann Carden: And unless you're working with somebody, it's very difficult to actually get that. That real, that real experience. So that real help. So I was always out there teaching. And I think I, in a way I'm kind of a, a natural teacher. I love to just share and give, give value that way. It's one of the reasons I do the podcast.
[00:35:30] Ann Carden: Um, I love to just share and give back to people and, and teach them. If I can shortcut things for people, I want to do that. That's really where my heart is. Oh,
[00:35:45] Dave Polykoff: offers and then you flip that and went high ticket and saw more success. Now, when we talk about improving the The, our personal credibility, a personal brands authority and credibility to [00:36:00] help charge more money to our clients. It sounds like almost part of this though, is you just were charging more money.
[00:36:08] Dave Polykoff: And then that was maybe a perceived higher value. It's like the, the experiment with the wine where. There's two bottles in front of you and one bottle is 25 and the other bottle is 500. Yeah. The blind taste test and the 500 one magically tastes better. Is that, was it, what was it about just charging more that you think allowed you to earn more clients?
[00:36:37] Ann Carden: The truth is once I, I really understood that I could think, you know, once I was exposed to that, like I actually hired a coach to help me close my first 30, 000 client. That sounded outrageous to me. I'm 30, 000. Like who would pay that? Because I wasn't being taught those strategies. When I kind of came into the coaching space and into the coaching world, in fact, [00:37:00] my very first business coach was really inexpensive, like a few hundred dollars a month.
[00:37:04] Ann Carden: It was ridiculous. She made such an impact in my business. I thought, Oh my gosh, I want to do this. But my first two coaching clients, I actually got from, I was out there networking, speaking, I had two other businesses at the time when I knew that I wanted to step into the coaching space. So I actually went to two business owners that I knew from networking and I said, I'm really thinking about becoming a business coach.
[00:37:32] Ann Carden: But I want to make sure that I know what I'm doing for other people. Like I know what to do. I want to make sure my skills are transferable to other people's businesses. And so, and maybe this is a way for people to start if they're not sure, you know, they, they think they have the expertise, but they just maybe want to try it on for size.
[00:37:53] Ann Carden: So both of those clients did not pay me very much, but the very first client Um, she said, yeah, I'll buy it. I mean, [00:38:00] I didn't charge her very much for 90 days. So she said, I'll, I'll do it. Well, in the first week, because she had a retail store, I knew I had been in retail for 13 years, so in management, so I knew what, so I helped her in the first week run a 300 percent increase and she was struggling, she, she was really struggling, um, and she ran a third, a 300 percent increase in the first week.
[00:38:22] Ann Carden: And I thought. I know what I'm doing. And then the second client, I sat with her and her partner. They had a very small business and I'm looking at everything that they're doing. And I said, why? Like I saw this opportunity that they weren't even capturing. They knew about it. They just weren't really, it wasn't their main thing.
[00:38:43] Ann Carden: So they were kind of focused on something that wasn't even going to get them to the revenue that they would have loved to get to. So I uncovered this half a million dollar opportunity in their business that wouldn't have cost them a dime. It would have just literally been a shift and it blew their [00:39:00] mind.
[00:39:00] Ann Carden: And that was in the first hour we sat and went through their business. And so when I realized and you've built a lot of businesses and you've got a lot of insight into business and you can easily look at other people's businesses and see What is missing or where they're missing opportunity and you can help them close those gaps I knew that I was on to something it was after that I raised my prices now I didn't raise them to thirty thousand dollars And so when I first was exposed to that through a coach, I thought thirty thousand dollars And when he saw the results I was getting my clients.
[00:39:36] Ann Carden: He said He showed me and it's crazy for you to not charge that. Like you're helping people add a million or a million and a half to their business and a year, and you're charging, you know, peanuts. And so when I realized that. I thought, oh my gosh. So then it got to where he said, you know, you could probably charge him 30, 000 for six months.
[00:39:58] Ann Carden: Well, that blew my mind [00:40:00] again. Right. But that was, that was a lot of years ago. Um, but it was really, there was a bit of a process to it. It was understanding the value, but I, I'll tell you one way to know if it's time to really level up your prices. So if you already are working and it is it time to level up your prices, it's.
[00:40:20] Ann Carden: If you get your clients results and say, I should have charged more. I mean, clearly I should have charged them more. And so if you feel that way, because you're like, I just, I just literally gave them 30 years of the shortcut, all the heartache and the pain and the blood, sweat, and tears that I went through.
[00:40:43] Ann Carden: I just, I fast tracked them. I should have charged more. So if you're feeling like that, it's time to definitely elevate what you're doing. Is that,
[00:40:53] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. And I, I love that idea largely because, I mean, as you mentioned, [00:41:00] outcome, if they have to pay a small fraction of what their outcome is, then that's worth it for them,
[00:41:09] Ann Carden: Yes. And that's part of that perceived value, right?
[00:41:13] Dave Polykoff: right. Love it. Well, and this has been awesome. Uh, we largely, I think one of the key takeaways here that I will. I want to just like double emphasize for the audience is that for someone to see you as the individual, the personal brand as having just a little bit more credibility in the space. It doesn't take a lot to separate yourself from the 99 percent of other people, your competitors who aren't doing things like just showing up consistently online or investing into a personal brand of visual identity.
[00:41:50] Dave Polykoff: And, you know, a podcast or a newsletter, some lower lift things, but, um, you know, working your way up to things like writing a book and all [00:42:00] that, that's how you separate yourself online and, and whether you're extremely happy with the outcome of your first book or not, it's still just that like Twitter blue checkmark, as you will, to say like, this person's credible, I'll give him my time.
[00:42:13] Dave Polykoff: So I think that was like a large takeaway that I had today. And I hope our audience felt the same. So, and before we go, I want to make sure. Where can people find you online and some of the services you talked about today?
[00:42:26] Ann Carden: Yes, so you can go to my website annalcardin. com There's an Ellen But also I always am running workshops virtual workshops and I you you can go to the page I don't have another one scheduled now, but you can often check expert in you workshop calm And I almost every month I run a free virtual workshop where I teach a lot of these strategies to people who are really ready to level up and do bigger things and, and grow their business and scale their business.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] Dave Polykoff: All right. Check that out. We'll put that in the show notes as well. But, and this has been awesome. Thank you so much.
[00:43:05] Ann Carden: Thank you.
