[00:00:00] Dave Polykoff: So you're posting online every day and yet you're not growing. What seems to be the problem here? Well, largely the problem is that you need to be using the power content collaboration. And that's why today I have on Ben Albert, who has his canned system, which allows you to grow your audience online using the power of content collaboration.
[00:00:22] Dave Polykoff: So Ben, welcome to the show, man.
[00:00:23] Ben Albert: Dude, I'm pumped. You took this show is awesome. Put a ton of effort into it. I appreciate that. I appreciate your time and let's kick some butt together today.
[00:00:32] Dave Polykoff: Absolutely. I love the energy. Let's take that right forward into our first question, which is how did you get into content and podcasting? Cause I know you've got a whole network of podcasts and you've grown, uh, your audience through the power of the can system. So let's first start, how did you get into content and then how are you able to grow your audience using the system that you're going to explain to us today?
[00:00:57] Dave Polykoff: I
[00:00:58] Ben Albert: answer is I have [00:01:00] no clue. Like when I was a young age, like young age, I didn't have Jeff Bezos on the wall. I had no clue who Gary Vee was or Grant Cardone, or I didn't know who Oprah was. I wanted to be a basketball player. Basically my whole childhood. And then I shifted from basketball to music.
[00:01:18] Ben Albert: One thing that's common with Ben is when I'm into something, I get incredibly obsessed with it. So I was obsessed with basketball. Then I was obsessed with music. I became the guy that was handing out flyers. Um, way back in the day, I was setting up my space pages, running Merth merch booths that became Facebook.
[00:01:38] Ben Albert: Um, and in around 2014, 2015, I discovered podcasting, uh, cause I was a traveling sales rep. So I was spending like six hours a week doing podcasts. In the car, um, and I would listen to podcasts six hours a week. And one simple, common piece of advice is if you'd never want to work a day in your life, do something that you love.
[00:01:59] Ben Albert: Not the [00:02:00] best advice in every scenario, but I already had a job. So I'm like, let's start a side hustle. I was Rochester, New York. I was a musician. I love the music industry. So I started a Rochester, New York podcast. I didn't really think of myself as a content creator. I was also an introverted guy. So I wasn't even the perfect person for the role.
[00:02:21] Ben Albert: Uh, but I loved music. I loved podcasting. I loved my city and there was no Rochester music podcast. And I wanted to get into places for free. So that's how I became a content creator, but it wasn't this strategic decision. I didn't roll out of bed and say, I'm going to be an influencer. I just found something I was interested in and became a reporter in my city around that interesting thing.
[00:02:49] Ben Albert: And that was in 2016 that I launched that show. So the rest, I guess, is history because it's one of the things I do for a living now.
[00:02:58] Dave Polykoff: love that idea too, [00:03:00] where content creation is like, I won't call it a necessary evil cause it's not evil, but it's necessary part of your personal brand journey and really, as you were mentioning is like you had a passion for something and maybe a by product of that passion is you get to go into events for free and such, but you saw a gap in the market.
[00:03:22] Dave Polykoff: You had a passion for that topic. And then you naturally to fill that gap as you were creating content. So you weren't necessarily considering yourself a content creator, but you knew the way to fulfill that passion was through content. So I think that's what a lot of people in personal branding. Come to realize is, you know, they, they have a solution, they have a product and they want to attract people to that solution and product.
[00:03:47] Dave Polykoff: And the best way to do that is through content. Um, but then maybe sometimes they don't consider themselves a content creator. They don't consider themselves creative. Um, but it's just kind of the means to the end a bit. [00:04:00] So you, you started creating content and now you've grown. You know, podcasts on your online present, your own personal brand.
[00:04:09] Dave Polykoff: What's that journey been like? What were the early days of you starting to create content and maybe some of the struggles you saw early days that may be led to you creating this can system.
[00:04:20] Ben Albert: Yeah, you know, the, the accidentalness of it was the beauty of it because I just started doing something for fun and I didn't realize that I was developing the skill sets that I could stack together long term to be successful. So I'm just doing something for fun on the side. Um, I'm a traveling sales rep, then I'm a sales executive for a corporate marketing firm, and then the pandemic hit and I had just shifted into a new role.
[00:04:47] Ben Albert: So I was the first one in, first one out, got let go during the pandemic, uh, went through a dark period. We can go into the darkness if you want, but I was binge drinking, I
[00:04:57] Dave Polykoff: darkness is where the lessons are learned.
[00:04:59] Ben Albert: Dude, [00:05:00] I had no, I, the easiest way I can put it is I was like hiking and journaling and coming up with all these ideas and listening to podcasts and like personal growth books, but I was binge drinking.
[00:05:13] Ben Albert: I was lonely. I was uncertain. So it was almost like I knew where my North star was, but I was running in the wrong direction backwards. So it was kind of a lost soul at the time and I was unemployed. And you look at Music Ben, Music Ben, um, is unemployed. He's drinking too much and more than anything, he's non essential.
[00:05:38] Ben Albert: The entire industry shut down and for what it's worth, it was an incredible side hustle, loved it, but I was never really making any income with this music side hustle. So there was a change was required. You know, I had grown up, I had a vision for where I wanted to go. So I transitioned from music band.
[00:05:58] Ben Albert: To business Ben and who's [00:06:00] business Ben apparently is an entrepreneur. And I did exactly what I did in 2016 in the music industry, but now for business in 2020, I started a Rochester, New York business podcast. I called it Rochester business connections. Because I really just needed some and I didn't know what I was going to do next, but I knew that if I surrounded myself with the right kind of people, mentors, peers, and honestly, possible clients, I can network and gain some momentum.
[00:06:31] Ben Albert: And it was a terrible time in most everybody's life, but the beauty of the pandemic was all these CEOs and executives and business leaders were at home in their pajama pants. It So Ben starts a rinky dink Rochester, New York business podcast. Um, and here's the key here. I didn't like pretend I was an expert.
[00:06:52] Ben Albert: I didn't start marketing one on one podcast. I started Rochester Business Connections because I needed some and [00:07:00] I leaned on the mentorship. A lot of the questions I asked were bad. People loved it though. I was asking beginner questions. They were kind of growing with me. Um, and it was through the collaboration.
[00:07:12] Ben Albert: It was through the mentorship. It was through understanding business from multiple levels. That I built foundational skills to actually start a business, grow the podcast, this or that, but it was the collaboration element. It was the learning, every learning, learning something new every single day. And the beauty, I think I got lucky.
[00:07:31] Ben Albert: Like I kind of just chose the first thing that came to mind. I didn't have a great strategy. But by starting Rochester, New York business owners, it was so hyper niche, so hyper specific that I didn't have a big audience, but my entire audience was the kind of people I wanted to meet. I was talking to business owners, I was starting a marketing firm.
[00:07:54] Ben Albert: So a lot of the people that came on didn't become clients. Some of them did. A [00:08:00] ton of them became mentors, peers, and referral partners. So I Didn't have a strategy that was perfect, but by going so ridiculously hyper niche, when people do the opposite, they want to create viral content. They want to be everywhere by going really, really specific.
[00:08:18] Ben Albert: I was making more dollars than views, like for every a hundred listens I made, I was making money off business relationships. So I, I find that collaboration was huge and I think it's a big misconception that people just want to be the next Gary Vaynerchuk or Alex or Leila Hormozi and be viral overnight.
[00:08:39] Ben Albert: But it was by going really, really specific, I didn't go viral, but I actually made pretty good money doing it.
[00:08:46] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. I want to. Go back to the idea of you, you had a hyper niche focus and target, and then you brought on strategic people to the show, [00:09:00] to pick their brain about their involvement with that niche. Um, so if you're interested in this niche, I'm bringing on kind of the adjacent. Uh, gurus, if you will, uh, that can support topics that are associated with it.
[00:09:18] Dave Polykoff: What was kind of your criteria? Because when we talk about content collaboration, we want to be, I mentioned, maybe you weren't as strategic then, but kind of hindsight 2020 wanting to be a bit more strategic with, okay, who do we collaborate with? That's going to add. Value to what my niche is, who could potentially be a client or worst case, as you mentioned, just be a good future, you know, partner or supporter or, you know, some additional value outside of like monetary value, because, and I, I mentioned this because this is exactly what I go through.
[00:09:56] Dave Polykoff: With my podcast right now, right. Is, you know, I, it's, it's a guest [00:10:00] podcast. I bring on people that I think are going to be able to support my audience. I'd be able to learn something and it's all, you know, uh, personal brand adjacent. So what were some of your early day, um, criteria for who you wanted to bring on as, as a guest?
[00:10:15] Ben Albert: Yeah, so I'll explain what I did, and I'll also explain what I do now, and they're both completely correct. So, early on criteria, the more hands you shake, the more money you make. It was just spray and pray. I was a State University, New York, Brockport alumni. I was reaching out to SUNY Brockport alumni, business owners.
[00:10:39] Ben Albert: Um, and since it was specific was, Hey, I saw you went to SUNY Brockport as well. Congrats on making it big time, launching a Rochester, New York business podcast. I think you possibly would be a great fit for that. Um, and it was like a incredible success rate. I mean, not everybody wants to get on camera, but anyone with a little comfort would say, yes, they're like putting their chips on the little [00:11:00] guy.
[00:11:00] Ben Albert: But what I did then was the more hands you shake. The more money you make, I did a 22 episode launch in November of 2020, an episode a day, uh, all of November, Monday through Friday, then I was doing three episodes a week, then two episodes a week, then four episodes a week. I was all over the place, but I was creating a ton of content.
[00:11:18] Ben Albert: And I think this is a great lesson for a lot of the creators out there. Like not all the content was perfect. Not all of it. I'm not proud. I'm not, I'm proud of all of it because it's part of my journey. But I'm not like sharing all the videos that I did, like some of them were just not that good, but I was getting in a lot of reps and I would never replace that.
[00:11:41] Ben Albert: I would still do that today, but what I would do now that I have a better understanding of it is, um, I like to simplify this in the easiest way possible. So mentor of mine, James Altucher talks about plus minus and equals, and I've applied this to podcasting, but a plus. [00:12:00] Is a mentor, they're a coach, there's someone you're learning from, there's someone you're paying, they're honestly just the people you're subscribed to in your podcast app.
[00:12:08] Ben Albert: Those are your pluses. A minus is either a mentee. An audience member or a prospect client. There's someone that you're going to mentor. You're going to help an equal is a peer to peer. It's a hive mind where you can be each other's board of directors, share information, share leads, share referrals, share best practices.
[00:12:31] Ben Albert: So again, the pluses or your mentors, the minus or your target audience. Your mentees, and then the equals are your peers. If you draw a line down a sheet of paper, plus minus equals. You can write down the general profile of who you want to learn from, who you can help, and who your peer is. For example, in a crazy industry, if I'm a roofer, but I don't do siding, I want to know siding people.
[00:12:59] Ben Albert: If I'm a [00:13:00] landscaper, I do curb appeal, but I don't do, uh, I don't do the house. I didn't do power washing. I'm going to want to know power washers. Those are my peers. And I make a list of the people in each category. And if I really know what I'm doing, I write down actual names. And those are my guests.
[00:13:19] Ben Albert: Mentors because the mentors teach me something. They also make me look good. Uh, I've had people, I don't know how I got them on the podcast, but Chris Doe, the future who's brilliant, huge following Jordan Harbinger. I've been listening to him since like 2006. These are people that have been on my podcast, never spent a dime on me.
[00:13:38] Ben Albert: Uh, but they make me look good as mentors. My peers, we share information, we kind of build community together, and I bring on people that objectively, I help business owners, so I bring business owners on, they are prospects. I don't think of it that way, but they kind of are in this scenario. So if I have clarity on those three [00:14:00] categories.
[00:14:01] Ben Albert: I just reach out to equal amount of humans in each of those categories. And what I did in the front, the more hands you shake, the more money you make is not wrong. High frequency is good, but if you have clarity on who you can help or who you can, who can help you in each of those categories, you're good to go.
[00:14:17] Ben Albert: You have the list. You just start reaching out to people.
[00:14:20] Dave Polykoff: Love it. So you have your CAN system, C A N. And I believe this is something that is kind of like a, an acronym for a process here. Can you kind of first give us kind of an overview of what exactly the CAN system is, and then we'll dive into it a little bit more.
[00:14:37] Ben Albert: Yeah, we are literally talking about it right now. Um, there's lots of C's, but create content, collaborate and network, create and network content and networking collaborate and network. I there's so many C's I could just add more C's. It's like my favorite letter, but, um, At the core of it, [00:15:00] I call it creation driven networking.
[00:15:02] Ben Albert: I know we're just using lots of words here, but the purpose of creation driven networking is to create content and networking simultaneously to drive all your content and networking efforts simultaneously. So, Simply put people go out and they network, they hand out lots of business cards. said it like eight times.
[00:15:27] Ben Albert: The more hands you shake, the more money you make. That's not bad. But when you take someone like Ben, who's more, a little more introverted, um, I'm not really the life of the party in a crowded space. I think I might have a little bit of like a issue or a brain chemistry thing. Cause when the glasses start clanking and the lights get bright, I get a little anxious, I get a little uncomfortable.
[00:15:49] Ben Albert: But in a group of four, three, or one on one, I can chat with someone all day. I'm comfortable. So, if I'm extroverted, and I'm the life of the [00:16:00] party, I might not use the CAN system. I might just network, network, network, network. But if you want to create content, That's meaningful while you network, that actually becomes the purpose of your networking.
[00:16:13] Ben Albert: So if I were to reach out to a business owner and just say, Hey, I want to meet you. Well, I can buy you coffee, uh, pick your brain. The subtext is you're going to pick my brain. Am I going to get those brain cells back? My time is worth like a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars an hour. Do I want to spend that just on a 5 coffee?
[00:16:35] Ben Albert: You're going to buy me a 5 coffee. Yeah. Okay. But if I can create walleye network, that's my way of getting in the door and starting the conversation. It's, Hey, I see you do this. I want to highlight you. So we've talked about this in the podcasting space, but it could be starting a blog and let's say you're a writer.
[00:16:55] Ben Albert: It could be as simple as reaching out and being like, Hey, I see you're an expert on [00:17:00] X, Y, Z. Can you take 45 seconds to submit a quote. And I want to feature you in my blog and dude, I actually thought about you could do this at scale where let's say you have a content create, uh, let's let's content creations too vague.
[00:17:16] Ben Albert: So let's say roofing just as an example. So you're a content creator, a marketing for the, a roofing company. You reach out to all the roofing thought leaders. You start a blog around roofing. You get quotes from them. Can you use this chat GPT to help you write the blog and then you feature them. Once you feature them, you share them the blog posts, you share a graphic from the quote they provided, and you provide them a three step process of how to add it to their website and share it to their community.
[00:17:46] Ben Albert: So we're kind of getting real meta, but you're building SEO, you're collaborating, you're building a relationship and objectively, maybe this partnership could be a 40, 000 deal. But even if it's not, you're creating [00:18:00] content. And networking, and it's really easy because it's easy to make an ask when it's not selfish, it's actually helping them.
[00:18:09] Ben Albert: So we mentioned a podcast, we mentioned a blog, it could be anything. It could be an Instagram account where you take pictures of food. Then you find other photographers to become collaborators. And bring posts into your account, pictures of food, and then you build your account of other people taking pictures, and then you can go into businesses and say, look at this account I run, it's a food blog, I'd love to take pictures of your menu, feature you, and what something you did passionately became an awesome business opportunity.
[00:18:42] Ben Albert: I'll just give one more quick example, you can run events. You run an event, you bring in speakers, you bring in guests. If you want a seat at the table, you bring your own table. If you want to be on the mic, you just MC, you're on the mic. You put yourself in a place of thought leadership just because you started something.
[00:18:59] Ben Albert: [00:19:00] So create content, collaborate, and network. You become the center of gravity. The plus minus equal, the mentors, the audience, the peers, they come to you. Rather than you having to spend a million dollars a year on ads to try to grab people from every little direction. People actually come to you because you become a thought leader in the space and the entire time you met people as you went.
[00:19:26] Ben Albert: Does that all make sense? I feel like I just like caught fire there.
[00:19:30] Dave Polykoff: Yeah, no, I let you go. Um, no, I think one of the key points here is early on in a content creation journey for a personal brand is a lot of people feel maybe the, they have a little bit of imposter syndrome and they don't feel as though they have maybe the credibility to speak on certain topics or they feel uncomfortable.
[00:19:53] Dave Polykoff: Trying to be an authority in their space, a thought leader in their space, because it just doesn't feel natural for them [00:20:00] to speak in that way publicly. Um, and so. Whether you have the credibility, uh, and you're just, you just have some imposter syndrome with voicing it, or maybe you don't have the credibility yet and you don't have the experience, but you're trying to gain the credibility to piggyback off of others.
[00:20:20] Dave Polykoff: Credibility by through content collaboration is kind of like a cheat code there in a way, and so you're. As you mentioned, not only are you establishing strong relationships with thought leaders, gurus, whatever you want to call them in your space, but you're also now kind of hitching your wagon to the, their credibility wagon, if you will.
[00:20:44] Dave Polykoff: So now your name and that guru's name is being mentioned in the same sentence, or is on the same piece of content and just by. Brand osmosis there, you're now seen as a bit more of a thought leader. [00:21:00] Um, and I, I, you mentioned a few examples of ways that you could potentially do this. I mean, I've even thought about this, you know, ideally there's people that I wish I could get onto this podcast.
[00:21:10] Dave Polykoff: Granted, I never asked him yet, but I thought, you know, Oh, maybe they. If they have, you know, they're too busy or whatever, even just ways of like, Hey, listen, I'm going to send you three questions when you're free, record yourself answering those three questions. I'll record myself asking those questions and then I'll make a social clip and it'll be like we were on a podcast together, but we don't necessarily have to sync up calendars and you don't have to like come on for an hour and a half to talk or whatever, but we're collaborating through. A content collaboration so that it looks as though this is like a joint effort or whatever, which it is. But I think there's creative ways to, again, establish that [00:22:00] relationship, find creative ways to connect on content and hitch your wagon to someone who's credible in the space without having to like, make a really big ask with, you know, an hour and a half of a podcast or something like that. And yeah, like, yeah, fine, fine creative way. So I really, I, I like kind of the, the different ways that you can collaborate with, uh, with content. What's like, what's the best way do you think, because if we were, you know, with personal brands, the sources that we're creating content, usually online through social content.
[00:22:34] Dave Polykoff: Podcasting, maybe newsletters. I just mentioned a blog. What's the way, if we kind of have someone in mind that we want to collaborate with, what's kind of the best way to reach out to them, to establish that relationship, especially if maybe we don't know them yet or have any connection with them yet to get them to collaborate on a piece of content with you.
[00:22:54] Ben Albert: So this is a big question. The core answer is it depends on the audience and it depends on who [00:23:00] this person is. Um, a more nuanced to it is where do you look the best? If I have a big YouTube following, I want to attract them by using my YouTube. Um, in my scenario, my LinkedIn looks pretty darn good. And by happenstance, LinkedIn is a very uncrowded platform where there's people that have a hundred thousand Instagram followers, but on LinkedIn, they have like 3000 followers, they have no team members running their LinkedIn and my LinkedIn looks kick butt.
[00:23:33] Ben Albert: So when I reach out to them on LinkedIn. My Instagram doesn't look good at all. They're not even looking at that. But when I reach out on LinkedIn, it looks better than theirs. And it's not a competition, but they're like, Oh, this person's legit. They have an audience on a medium that I don't have an audience.
[00:23:51] Ben Albert: And it gets through to the person because it's an uncrowded platform. And the creator's often monitoring that inbox on their own. [00:24:00] So for me, LinkedIn works great. I actually say for most people, if you find that the person you want to reach out to as a LinkedIn account, it's a great place to reach out to for all the reason I just said, generally the person's monitoring their own biz, uh, their own, you know, uh, their DMS, um, but.
[00:24:17] Ben Albert: Again, like, if you have a great Instagram, just send out a DM. My problem with Instagram is I feel like a lot of times they don't get through. Um, if you can find their email online, send them an email. One thing I always like to do is I send the shortest pitches ever. Um, and I always ask, like, What's the best way to like talk to your executive assistant or make an offer to do this with you?
[00:24:41] Ben Albert: I give them the out immediately and I actually ask them to direct me to their executive assistant a lot of times It's the executive assistant already reading that message But that's beside the point and then when they give me the email of their executive assistant I can take a screenshot of them giving me the email of the [00:25:00] assistant and then I get through to the assistant So it's being concise and concise Reaching out preferably on an uncrowded platform.
[00:25:07] Ben Albert: But another thing is like, I'll reach out on every single platform. And a side point that's super valuable is you're not going to get your big name guests on the first ask. And if you do, you can leverage the heck out of it, but let's assume in most cases, you don't know any gurus. You don't know any celebrities are starting from scratch.
[00:25:25] Ben Albert: You're going to build momentum by creating a proof of concept, bringing on guests, bringing on collaborators, building a little bit of a personal And then I scored Eric Sioux, who's an incredible marketer. He co hosts a podcast with Neil Patel called Marketing School. Once Eric was on my podcast, I reached back out to Chris Doe who never replied to my message.
[00:25:50] Ben Albert: Because I noticed that Chris Doe's, Chris Doe was on Eric's podcast and it literally was released the exact same day that I released the episode with [00:26:00] Eric. So I was like, Chris, oh my God, I don't mean to like be a stalker, but I just had Eric Sue on my podcast. I just watched your episode on his podcast, thought I'd give it another shot.
[00:26:11] Ben Albert: And since Chris knows Eric, it's front of mind, I know Eric. I look a little cooler than if I didn't know any of these people. And he took that message. He took the call, jumped on the podcast. Then there's Jasmine Alec. Who's like the best content writer on LinkedIn right now. He's growing crazily organically.
[00:26:29] Ben Albert: Like no one's growing faster than him. I saw that he was on Chris's podcast. So when, when I reached out to Jasmine or he goes by, Hey Jay, when I reached out to, Hey Jay, I named dropped Chris dough. So it is kind of building a foundation that's strong from the ground up. It's creating a personal brand.
[00:26:51] Ben Albert: That's a proof of concept. And as you bring on cool people, as you prove yourself, you can use that as leverage to reach out to other [00:27:00] people. Um, and people are always like. Well, how do you get Christo on your podcast? It's not, it is kind of just reaching out, but it's building that foundation that when they look at the show, they're like, Oh, this is a no brainer.
[00:27:14] Ben Albert: And the behind the scenes truth is nine out of 10 times. People don't ask for this long press kit, detailed metrics. They just want to see that it's going to be worth an hour of their time. They'll put their chips on you. If you deliver. If you, you're a good at, this is another just nuance. You're good at what you, you gotta be good at what you do.
[00:27:37] Ben Albert: You suck. They're going to think it was a waste of your time,
[00:27:39] Dave Polykoff: well, this is kind of where I want to stay for a little bit too, because just to kind of, you know, wrap on this concept a little bit is. I've noticed, you know, I'm early in my podcasting journey and I've only been doing this maybe three or four months now. And I've had some guests on that have larger LinkedIn [00:28:00] followings.
[00:28:00] Dave Polykoff: And I'll, what I like to do after for every episode is I put a lot of value into the production value and then. As a thank you to my guests as I provide them, um, clips from the show they're branded for brand science and, but Hey, like, thank you. Here's like a really nice piece of you saying something super smart.
[00:28:21] Dave Polykoff: And I've, my guests are very thankful for that. And they'll post it on, on their LinkedIn. Um, but I don't net sometimes necessarily see an uptick in like views. Sometimes I do, but, uh, in like views or LinkedIn connections and all that kind of stuff, again, it's like hit or miss sometimes, but you think, oh, this person's got like a hundred thousand followers and they just posted something that and tagged me in it.
[00:28:47] Dave Polykoff: Um, but so that's one thing I kind of want to talk about the idea of like, besides the connection. The value of having that connection. And obviously that's invaluable, you know, what else could we potentially expect [00:29:00] from like outcomes from the collaboration of, of that content being live, but going back to where their initial point is. I want to show that I put time and energy into making sure that my guest looks, sounds smart and that the by product of the episode is also assets that they can use. And so I just want to give value to the, um, I want to make sure that the, the podcast has high production value and is a quality show. And then also my guest feels taken care of for this fact of what you're saying here, where like, if I, if Chris Doe or, you know, Gary V checks out the podcast.
[00:29:39] Dave Polykoff: And checks out who I've had on the podcast and then checks out their content. He sees like. Is people see, okay, Dave actually is putting time and energy into making sure he has a quality piece of content for his audience. I want to be on a show where the host puts time and energy into that. So, yeah, I [00:30:00] think it's a really important point where like, if you want quality guests, you have to put quality into.
[00:30:06] Dave Polykoff: Your content because your quality guest wants to be associated with that quality content. Um, and I think that's kind of the, the honey that's going to attract those, those bees or those flies. So, yeah, but, but go on what you were saying that that's, I just wanted to inject that that was something I've always kind of put forth for, for brand science.
[00:30:24] Ben Albert: I mean, you're spot on. And I always say they haven't spent money with you. They haven't officially worked with you, but they know what it would feel like if they did. So with that slant, it's like, do you want to look like you're not professional? You don't know what you're doing. You don't care about it.
[00:30:46] Ben Albert: How is that going to seep into other areas of your business? So if you're a good host, you do the best you can, you do strong follow up, you provide assets, they're going to be like, Hmm, I know what it's like to work with [00:31:00] this person, and even if. They can't help me. I might know someone they can help. Uh, another aspect I want to add that you didn't quite touch on, um, but it's huge in branding and you know, this is just lots of touch points.
[00:31:13] Ben Albert: So part of my intake form, for example, is asking for their phone number. Now I don't spam them. I don't share it. I never use it. But the morning the podcast comes out, I send them a few words. You know, I just text them, Hey, it's Ben, our podcast just dropped. So pumped. You did an amazing job. Then if I, I don't always do this, so do as I say, not as I do, but if you really want to be structured, the moment you get a comment, whether it's just a small little comment or a phone call or an email, any comment saying that the podcast was kick butt, send that email, send that comment, take a screenshot, send a text message being like, you know, I know we don't have a million, I know we don't have a billion views yet, you know, tell a little joke.
[00:31:58] Ben Albert: I know we don't have a billion [00:32:00] views yet. But I've already gotten numerous comments saying X, Y, and Z. This moved the needle on my career. You taught me something that I didn't know. Um, grab a quote from it. It's these tiny little touch points that the production could be killer. The production could stink.
[00:32:17] Ben Albert: The podcast could stink. The audience could be small, but by having that human to human approach, you're going to build a relationship with that person for what it's worth. There's a higher probability. They share it. There's a higher probability. They select the collaborator button on your request, or you can ask them and they'll accept that reach their audience that way, higher probability.
[00:32:39] Ben Albert: They'll leave your review, but a biggest issue. And it's not just in podcasting. It's any content is we just post and ghost. And then we don't actually get the full juice out of the opportunity.
[00:32:50] Hey, Dave here... obviously, but I want to just pause this episode real quick and say, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Brand Science. I hope that you're [00:33:00] getting as much value as a viewer or listener as I've gotten as a host.
[00:33:04] And if you are getting value from this episode, It must mean that you enjoy nerding out on all things personal branding, content creation, and strategy, which means you're my type of person. So I want to connect. Once you're done this episode, go down to the show notes where you'll find my LinkedIn profile. Click on that link, head over to my profile and send me a request. When you send the request, there'll be that little pop-up that comes up, that you can add a note in the request.
[00:33:33] Just tell me that you found me from a brand science episode so I know that you are one of those loyal, awesome listeners of mine. And let's connect and learn together. Anyway, just want to say, love you. Thanks for listening. Let's connect on LinkedIn and a yeah. Back to the episode.
[00:33:48] Dave Polykoff: Yeah, so that full juice from the opportunity, you would kind of break down as that [00:34:00] relationship that you've established that can, I guess, be a resource for potentially a client in the future, or they now understand, you know, The dynamic of who you are and what type of value you can bring to someone. So whenever that person has someone in their network that potentially could use your service or product, that's now kind of like a, a sales channel for, for you essentially.
[00:34:31] Ben Albert: And it's super nuanced because we'll just use Chris Do as the example we've been using. He's not going to spend any money with me. Maybe that's a limiting belief, but I don't think he's going to spend any money with me. But by treating people well, I build the muscle. That when I get a client who's going to spend money with me, I already have good habits.
[00:34:53] Ben Albert: So then I over deliver for that client. So part of it, it's nuance, is building good habits. How you do one thing is [00:35:00] how you do everything. If you can add immense value for free, what does your paid products look like? That's my thought on that.
[00:35:09] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. So it's almost like content creation valuable for a hundred reasons, but to Quality content in a quality channel. So we'll say a social profile, podcast, newsletter, blog, it's something you've really invested into. And, and people can tell that this is something that you've really spent the time to put a strategy behind the content that you publish is high quality. That then opens doors for what we're talking about today in terms of collaboration, and then. The more you're able to be consistent with that, the more you can kind of raise the bar on who you can collaborate with and the more that they see that those types of [00:36:00] people are collaborating with you, the more doors are opened.
[00:36:03] Dave Polykoff: So, I guess kind of the, the point here too, is you don't need to be everywhere, but if. You choose one channel, and you just really kick ass at that one channel, that can still be worth its weight in gold. Um, maybe not necessarily in terms of like the monetization of that channel, but how you can actually use it as a platform for establishing these relationships, and then those relationships are what Can help you monetize or open more doors in the future.
[00:36:34] Dave Polykoff: So it's like, um, you know, like you were saying earlier, uh, early on is like you had the podcast and your way of like monetizing it, uh, was that you were able to go to, uh, events for free. You know what I mean? So if you just have like a really great channel, it, it can open doors that maybe don't show the monetary value right away, but it's kind of secondary value.
[00:36:59] Ben Albert: [00:37:00] Two super quick, tangible examples. So I just interviewed him. It's not out yet, but AJ Wilcox is the number one thought leader on LinkedIn ads. All he talks about is LinkedIn ads. Not that many people run in LinkedIn ads. If they want to, he comes up biggest podcasts out there, YouTube channel, LinkedIn ads.
[00:37:20] Ben Albert: And what does he do? He consults and sells LinkedIn ad management. So he has owned that super specific space. Another example, Chris Van Vliet, a good friend of mine, he is, he's a four time Emmy award winner. He's interviewed the rock. He's interviewed literally John Cena, Tom Cruise, anyone you can think of.
[00:37:39] Ben Albert: He's been on the red carpet a million times. He's had a lot of great interviews and a lot of great guests, but he found that his wrestling clips and his wrestling episodes always did the best. He like wanted to be a wrestler when he was younger. He's very passionate about it. Interview the rock 10 times, interviewed John C a bunch of times.
[00:37:59] Ben Albert: So the wrestling [00:38:00] stuff was doing better than the generalist entertainment podcast kind of stuff. So he decided I'm going to 10 X on wrestling. And he was just sharing this with me the moment that he went 10 X on wrestling specifically, he has had an increase on the podcast literally his YouTube shorts channel has just reached like I think he told me a billion.
[00:38:22] Ben Albert: I don't know if he made that up. I'm not literally look up Chris Van Vliet shorts. Yeah. Chris Van Vliet shorts, um, has reached a billion and it's cause he's focusing specifically on wrestling. He's the number one wrestling podcast and he's done a lot of cool stuff. Who doesn't want to go interview Leonardo DiCaprio and Tom Cruise, but since he's hyper focused on wrestling. AJ Wilcox comes in and he's the expert. Chris doesn't pretend to be an expert. But since he talks to the talent, and he does current events, and he talks about the story behind it, he becomes the expert [00:39:00] by association. So these are two different strategies. It's, I'm gonna be the thought leader because I'm the expert.
[00:39:06] Ben Albert: Or, I'm just really passionate about this. So I'm going to bring people to the table and then I'm cool by association. Neither of those are wrong. Both of them work really just depends on what you're trying to do.
[00:39:19] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. I mean, I've heard when I started this podcast with. Inviting on guests that they can express and describe or talk about their expertise. A common thing that I would hear is, you know, make sure you get in your, your anecdotes, your points of, uh, expertise as well, because you need to be seen as the expert.
[00:39:43] Dave Polykoff: The thought leader as well, um, that if you give too much of the mic over to, uh, your guest and you're just kind of playing journalist interviewer that you're not seen in as much of a thought leadership light as, as you're, you know, [00:40:00] your guest or, um, you know, people aren't looking at you as the person to go to for the source.
[00:40:04] Dave Polykoff: So what is that balance in the sense that like, Yeah. Content collaboration. Great. For all the reasons we're talking about today. Um, but, you know, do you think about how to balance that with, okay, maybe some personal content that also expresses your thought leadership, or do you try to inject that, you know, into, you know, Guest interviews and collaborations as well.
[00:40:28] Ben Albert: Yeah. There's no right or wrong because in the content game, you got to get reps in. When I started, I, I, I really didn't know what I was doing and I was afraid of the mic. And if you listen to old episodes, I didn't share anything. It was just questions and the guests didn't mind it. Cause I was good at asking questions.
[00:40:47] Ben Albert: I led the conversation, but I wasn't building thought leadership. So you're nailing it, bringing in your own personality. Solid depends on your style though. Larry King never brought his own personality and he was a [00:41:00] King of probing and asking questions. And then a Joe Rogan does. Almost as much talking as his guests.
[00:41:06] Ben Albert: So it does depend on your style. I encourage people. You said it in podcasting, you put out personal episodes in your content. You do talking head videos. You do a graphic with your face. You let them get to know you. And if you still kind of feel awkward about like talking about yourself, which most of us do, I can still do a post and say what I learned from Chris van Vliet, niching down on something you're passionate about will blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you can weave in these, it actually is more compelling. I can say what I learned from Chris. But by the end, I'm actually talking about a new theory that I didn't learn from Chris. Like, it kind of reminds me of creation driven networking, the concept of collaboration. What would Chris be without John Cena?
[00:41:54] Ben Albert: Just how, who, what would I be without Chris? And what would my clients be without me? And you start [00:42:00] injecting what you do and how you help through a third party story, but at the end of the day, you nailed it. Like, At some point, we want our personality to shine, uh, because people might come for X, Y, Z reason, but they're gonna stick around, subscribe, and become a superfan for you.
[00:42:19] Ben Albert: And if they don't know who you are, why would they stay? They'll go watch someone that they're more associated and connected with. So, you nailed it. I'm just expanding a little bit on that
[00:42:31] Dave Polykoff: No, I mean, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's something I've been kind of coming, finding my sea legs on myself. Cause I, you know, I like to let my, my guest cook, right? Like I want them to come on and be able to educate me on things. Sometimes there's things like I already know. Well, but you know, they, they're able to kind of fill in the gaps where I don't, but I also like to just have good conversations.
[00:42:56] Dave Polykoff: So, you know, when can I step on the guest's toes and when [00:43:00] can I, whatever, but, um,
[00:43:01] Ben Albert: let's flip it then, because I'm not like a studied personal brand content strategist. I'm more a nosebleed and then figure out how to not get a nosebleed and then start just multiplying what's working kind of guy. I'm sharing what's worked for me and what's worked for my friends is, am I off base?
[00:43:22] Ben Albert: Am I on base? It's like from your more formalized experience. What is the best route? Like based on this conversation, what do you recommend the listener do?
[00:43:33] Dave Polykoff: I love this question. Um, yeah, so I'll, I'll give, I'll kind of go through my experience with the podcast specifically. And then content that I've in a way has been a collaborative Piece of content because it's a content, a piece of content from this podcast that I then shared with my guest and what that experience has been like with them posting it.
[00:43:59] Dave Polykoff: [00:44:00] And I will say again, as I mentioned before, the. Posts that largely comes down to what the medium is that where you're creating the content and the type of content you're collaborating on. Because if you want, if you're, if you're creating a podcast and you want people to go view the YouTube video or listen to the podcast, and you want to try to get that traffic from social media through a social clip.
[00:44:29] Dave Polykoff: People aren't necessarily, typically aren't going to click off of social media to go listen to your podcast, right? So it's not the best way to get like views and such, um, through that, the value that I've had with creating those social clips and having guests on and such is largely. The door that they open as we're talking about today, the door that they open into their audiences and their networks.
[00:44:57] Dave Polykoff: So for example, when they do [00:45:00] post the content that I provide them, I'll engage with the comments that are put onto their social posts and, you know, so I'm tapping into their audience. I'm getting FaceTime with them. Sometimes if I find it's someone who's really. An ideal client, I'll friend request. I'm like, Hey, just saw your post on so and so's, uh, post from my podcast.
[00:45:27] Dave Polykoff: Like, you know, that's me. So I figured if you're interested in that, you'd be interested in some of the things I post to kind of thing. So I find that it's. A handshake into that other person's network and you have to do it in a respectful way. Like, you don't want to just, you know, spam the other people's networks.
[00:45:46] Dave Polykoff: It needs to be, um, you know, valid and they need to be qualified and all that. Um, so that's been largely the, the tactic that way is that through basically [00:46:00] the, the guest is giving you kind of the credibility check by posting content on their. Account of, Hey, I was on this person's podcast. Um, I respected them enough to be on their podcast.
[00:46:16] Dave Polykoff: I like what they're doing. I'm posting a piece from that, that podcast, that is kind of like the wingman for you being able to then, you know, uh, connect with and start a conversation with their audience. So that's largely how I've been using that. Um, also to, you know, you kind of alluded to this as well, when it comes Ideas for content creation.
[00:46:39] Dave Polykoff: Sometimes, you know, the smartest things that we hear from other people. Right. So, um, if someone, if a guest. That you have on or you collaborate with says something really smart and you think, Oh, that's gonna be a really valuable piece for my audience. I try to then spin that in a way of [00:47:00] like, I just had on so and so to my, uh, my podcast and they said something really interesting that I think you, you all would really love to hear.
[00:47:09] Dave Polykoff: And I use their thought leadership as a way to. Drive a topic, a piece of content for myself, um, but I don't. What I don't like to do is just go, here's a clip from my podcast. And this is what someone else said. I like to kind of tee it up as, you know, Hey, here's a topic. I really love to talk about here's what someone just said on my podcast that I think you're going to love.
[00:47:38] Dave Polykoff: And then afterwards I kind of tack on my two cents as well. So it acts more. As the foundation for a piece of content, then I'm kind of piggybacking off of someone else's credibility. Um, and so, yeah, if I want to create content out of someone else's, uh, who who's been on my podcast, I, I just make [00:48:00] sure that I inject my two cents into it as well, so that it's not just me going, here's what this other person said.
[00:48:06] Dave Polykoff: Um, yeah, so those are some of the ways that I've been kind of repurposing or piggybacking off of kind of the. The content that's being created through, through this podcast. Um, but again, largely, I think the value is less about like views and likes and all that. And as you've been saying, has just more so been that the guest.
[00:48:31] Dave Polykoff: Besides the relationship that we establish the, by the guest posting content with our names associated with it, tagging me in it, et cetera. They are giving the check Mark of approval on me as a person, me and my credibility, you know, me and my account. So that if I engage with. People who engage on that content.
[00:48:56] Dave Polykoff: It's, um, you know, it's not like I'm just coming out of the blue [00:49:00] and, you know, doing a LinkedIn spam message of, you know, I saw that we have people in common, so I thought I would friend request you or whatever, you know, all these fake, fake friend requests or whatever, that's the door, that's the handshake that's, that's happening.
[00:49:17] Dave Polykoff: Um, that's allowing me. The, uh, the right to be able to like establish that new relationship. So that's, uh, that's largely the strategy I've been going off of.
[00:49:28] Ben Albert: Dude, drop the mic. You're dropping bombs. And I just want to put an exclamation point on like the DM social selling strategy. It It takes a minute. This isn't the spray and pray approach, but it's so true that if you post something and people are commenting, that is permission for you to click that, click request, click connect and reach out and be like, thank you so much for being a part of my network.
[00:49:57] Ben Albert: Really appreciated your comment on this. Um, [00:50:00] The one thing I'd add is I always have something to invite people to. So there's a term I like to say, be the center of their gravity, be the center of their gravity. And if you can do that and you have places you can invite them. And in the worst case scenario, if you don't have a free event, if you don't have much, you can invite them to check out something that you're consuming, like.
[00:50:24] Ben Albert: Um, this is another great pod, check out this podcast. Just like be the center of their gravity. So what I would do in a scenario like that is, um, simple example. We'll just see, we'll just keep going to Chris Doe. Cause this is an example post about Chris Doe, his friends, all his fans all like common, this and that I reach out to everybody saying like, so thank you so much for engaging.
[00:50:47] Ben Albert: I too am obviously a fan of Chris. I think he's brilliant and I appreciate his work as well. Then I'll ask them a question like, you know, what do you, what do you do? Tell me a little bit more. Like I want to start a conversation. It's not all [00:51:00] about me. Like, how'd you find Chris? Tell me a little about what you do, what piece of information was most valuable to you.
[00:51:05] Ben Albert: I'll send them a question. They'll respond to the question. And then often I'll inject that freebie. Now I'm not asking even for really much. I'm not asking them to buy anything. But my go to is I have a mastermind community and it's my community and it costs money But I like to bring in guests because I like to have an open door policy that come in, join a session, come see one of our speakers.
[00:51:33] Ben Albert: Like we just had Chris Van Vliet in the group the other day. Come see Chris speak. And if you'd like, I'd love for you to consider being part of the group. So I connect with them over a shared interest. We start a conversation. I invite them as a guest to my group, which people pay good money for, for free. There's a high probability that they're going to want to pay for that group. But that's the whole [00:52:00] cycle. So it's, you nailed it. Connect on a shared value, a shared interest, start a conversation. But then I always say, have something free to low cost, to low time investment to invite them to. They just went from stranger.
[00:52:17] Ben Albert: To part of your world in the course of a few messages. And the rest is kind of whatever happens, happens. Like, I'm super detached from Outcome. Some people just don't want to work with me, and that's fine. But I just make those offers all day long. Please go ahead.
[00:52:35] Dave Polykoff: Yeah. Well, I was going to say it's, it's, it's like, you know, a networking event where you do have that, maybe, you know, the speaker, the keynote speaker directly, You're kind of shaking hands with them, people around them, uh, kind of gather around them. And by you being associated with that speaker, it gives you the opportunity to be able to start shaking hands with, [00:53:00] you know, those other people that are around you.
[00:53:02] Dave Polykoff: But the idea is you kind of want that next Business card, that next step, you can't just shake hands and walk away, but some way to kind of go, Hey, let's grab coffee, you know, tomorrow or whatever. Right. So this is kind of like your virtual coffee date, if you will, something that you can actually invite them to, to kind of follow up on, um, the attention that you've gotten.
[00:53:23] Dave Polykoff: Otherwise it's just kind of a blown relationship. Um,
[00:53:28] Ben Albert: I just want to say it's scalable too. Because I can't do a coffee date with everybody, but if I invite them to a virtual event, With limitless attendees, I can invite as many people as I want to that. Or if I invite them to a free offer or a free video course or something, it's more scalable than sitting down and doing coffee with everybody you met at that event.
[00:53:47] Dave Polykoff: yeah. That's one of the biggest things that I, I think I had a post about this the other day. Um, I did. Yeah, it was something about, uh, you know, my post that I [00:54:00] had, you know, it was like, you've only got 2000 views on that last video. And then what's 2000 people? Well, that's like a stadium of people, um, you know, an auditorium of people.
[00:54:12] Dave Polykoff: And, you know, if you were to be on stage, uh, and, and speak to 2000 people, you'd be one scared out of your mind, but Two, um, you know, you would have to prepare a big presentation and put on a suit and you know, what, what have you, and get on a stage and travel to that location and give that presentation.
[00:54:31] Dave Polykoff: And, um, you know, you can, you can reach 2000 eyeballs, uh, from your computer with a quality piece of content, uh, through, you know, through the power of, of the internet. So, um, yeah, well, it's just kind of getting back on track, but that's, uh, That too, then what I, the additional value of content collaboration, I think is I say that your [00:55:00] profile picture is your personal brand logo, right?
[00:55:03] Dave Polykoff: Your face is your personal brand logo and by you doing things like video podcasts, and then I provide you those clips. You publish that onto your network. 99 percent of the clips that I provide my guests, I'm not even talking in the video. Maybe I should find a few examples of me kind of like showing my personality to include into those social clips, but
[00:55:25] Ben Albert: them or is it both
[00:55:27] Dave Polykoff: no, it's, it's split.
[00:55:28] Dave Polykoff: So I go, you know, it goes back and forth, like
[00:55:30] Ben Albert: So you're there,
[00:55:31] Dave Polykoff: So I'm in
[00:55:32] Ben Albert: there nodding.
[00:55:33] Dave Polykoff: my, my, my mug, my mug shot right there is in there. Right. So. My logo is being circulated around the internet essentially. Um, and so while I may not be saying anything and when I say logo, yeah, I also have the brand science logo, but you know, my, my personal brand logo, my face is still being circulated around and the more times that they post that.[00:56:00]
[00:56:00] Dave Polykoff: You know, provide a handful of different social clips and a lot of these, my guests post all of those social clips every couple of weeks or whatever. And the more they do that, the more my logo is being circulated around the internet and that's face recognition, you know, not like technical face recognition, but from the individual's perspective, they are now going to recognize my face.
[00:56:20] Dave Polykoff: So if I reach out to them. Through a friend request or they stumble upon my piece of content. They're going to recognize my face, recognize my logo, and they're going to feel as though they already know me. So that's the other thing is just the exposure, you know, brand awareness, brand exposure that you can get.
[00:56:39] Dave Polykoff: Through it. And again, that may not show its head monetarily or from an ROI the moment they publish that piece of content, but through repetition of, of them posting that content. Um, or even if they just see you once, like you just need, you just need to be kind of seen at least once, twice, a couple of times for [00:57:00] someone to go, okay, I recognize this person and I recognize that they are associated with the person that I. Value and trust. So just through osmosis, I'm going to trust this person. Um, so yeah, I think it's also just kind of about brand distribution, brand awareness, brand exposure. Um, and yeah, a lot of times that doesn't really show its head till later, but still is just kind of one of those, you know, hidden values that, uh, that eventually will be an ROI for you.
[00:57:32] Ben Albert: Alex Hermosi was talking about this in a clip the other day. Um, I've been trying to, I've always said like, you got to be patient, but impatient, and I never knew how to explain it, but I think you got to be incredibly impatient, but, uh, but you need to be patient and impatient, but he described it better than I was like trying to find the words.
[00:57:51] Ben Albert: And he said, you need to be impatient with your output. Impatient with your input. [00:58:00] So impatient with your output, go, go, go like success, reward, speed, shake hands, put out content, hit 400 people, 4, 000 people every single day. Impatient with your output. Outwork people, outrun people, outdo people. But you need to be patient with your input.
[00:58:21] Ben Albert: And that's what you just discussed. People don't have the patience to see out a long enough time horizon. But if you have the patience to take your time with input, the input comes. And when it comes, you're a better professional with a better product, with lots of reps in, they want to buy from you because they've already seen you 40 times.
[00:58:45] Ben Albert: But we need to be patient with the input, even though we're being impatient with output. So do a lot, but don't always expect to reach gold overnight, because we overestimate what we can do in a week. [00:59:00] We so underestimate what we can do in 10 years and just thinking 10 years, like, I feel like I'm going to be kind of old in 10 years. I'm not that old. And if 10 years, I'm a little bit older and I'm a multimillionaire, possibly billionaire. Am I going to be mad? Like, if someone told you you could be a billionaire in 20 years, if you just did X, Y, and Z, wouldn't you do X, Y, and Z? But people want the success now that they don't actually do X, Y, and Z.
[00:59:32] Ben Albert: So I'm riffing here, but inpatient with your output, but inpatient with your input, long term, long time horizons.
[00:59:42] Dave Polykoff: Love it. Well, I think that's a great way to kind of put a bow on what we talked about today in terms of content collaboration for a hundred different reasons, but largely being that you establish a relationship that is A [01:00:00] keystone to, and a springboard to a hundred other pieces of value in terms of maybe a sales channel, maybe, uh, just a partner, supportive partner, um, you know, someone who can mentor you over time.
[01:00:14] Dave Polykoff: Um, so using a strong. Channel content channel that you invest quality and time into as your honey for kind of attracting the ideal people that you want to be working with. Um, and then, yeah, there's some of those secondary byproducts of, of those efforts will be like we said, just. Brand awareness and credibility and kind of hitching your wagon to the credibility wagon of someone else.
[01:00:39] Dave Polykoff: So really loved everything you were talking about today. And Ben, if people want to learn more about you and the can system and your services, where can they check that out? I
[01:00:49] Ben Albert: Well, first and foremost, I wouldn't be here without you. So if, do it while I talk, y'all. If you haven't hit subscribe, five stars, bonus points for a comment. Like, show some love [01:01:00] because this is impossible without an incredible host. You can find me wherever you found this. Just type in the words, real business connections.
[01:01:10] Ben Albert: Google it real business connections. You'll find me. You'll find my podcast, but for what it's worth, Chris Van Vliet, Alex Hermosi, the future, Chris Doe, any of the people we talked about today, go follow them. Don't even follow me. I don't even care. As long as you're getting the right information, I'm happy.
[01:01:28] Ben Albert: So go keep learning, apply it and show some love for your house. Cause none of it would be possible. I just got to say that like three times. Like, I appreciate you having me on, man.
[01:01:39] Dave Polykoff: think there's a feature on here where I can. Make a horn sound and all that. I haven't figured it out yet, but if I, if I knew where that, where that button was, I'll be pressing it right now. We'll, we'll add it in, in post, but no, I appreciate the love. And, um, yeah, I mean, as you know, running a podcast can be tough.
[01:01:55] Dave Polykoff: So, uh, you know, any, any support always goes a long way. So I appreciate it, Ben.
